{"id":757986,"date":"2025-11-13T15:56:09","date_gmt":"2025-11-13T14:56:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/numero.com\/?p=757986"},"modified":"2026-04-13T15:29:34","modified_gmt":"2026-04-13T13:29:34","slug":"gallerist-thaddaeus-ropac-opens-up-to-numero-art-from-basquiat-to-his-love-of-opera","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/numero.com\/en\/art-design\/numero-art-en\/gallerist-thaddaeus-ropac-opens-up-to-numero-art-from-basquiat-to-his-love-of-opera\/","title":{"rendered":"Gallerist Thaddaeus Ropac opens up to Num\u00e9ro art, from Basquiat to his love for the opera"},"content":{"rendered":"\n
\"Thaddaeus\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button>
Thaddaeus Ropac for the opening of his new Milan gallery in September. Portrait by Maurizio Annese for
Num\u00e9ro art<\/em>.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Interview with gallerist Thaddaeus Ropac for Num\u00e9ro art<\/em><\/h2>\n\n\n

Num\u00e9ro art<\/em>: What would you like to drink?<\/strong> Thaddaeus Ropac<\/strong>:
Nothing fancy… A tequila sour.<\/p>\n\n

That\u2019s not exactly water!<\/strong>
It\u2019s a choice dictated by rather boring considerations. As the cocktail with the lowest sugar content, it has the fewest calories. [Laughs.]<\/p>\n\n

Let\u2019s get serious. What would you be doing if you weren\u2019t a gallerist?
<\/strong>It\u2019s funny you ask, because when I started out, aged 22, I told myself I\u2019d quit at 40. I\u2019m now 65 and still around. I think it\u2019s too late to reinvent myself.<\/p>\n\n

But when you were younger, what did you dream of doing?<\/strong>
Of working in opera. Not as an artist, because unfortunately that isn\u2019t my strong point. As you probably know, I tried to be an artist when I was younger. I even went to D\u00fcsseldorf to study with Beuys. But, thank god, I quickly realised I wasn\u2019t cut out for it. [Laughs.] It wasn\u2019t a complete waste of time, though, because its what led to my becoming a gallerist. People often ask me why one dealer makes it while a thousand others fail. In my opinion, there are three reasons. First, you need an eye. Unfortunately, I don\u2019t think it\u2019s something you can fully learn. Some people exhaust themselves trying, and still can\u2019t tell a good painting from a bad one. Second, you need luck. And I\u2019ve had plenty. Finally, you must work very hard.<\/p>\n\n\n

\"View\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button>
View of the exhibition
L\u2019aurora viene <\/em>by Georg Baselitz and Lucio Fontana at Thaddaeus Ropac Milan, September 2025.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

\u201cI\u2019d already realized being an artist wasn\u2019t the path for me.<\/em>\u201d \u2013 Thaddaeus Ropac<\/h3><\/h2>\n\n\n

How much of your success was down to luck?<\/strong>
It all goes back to my desire to become an artist. Alongside other students, I interned with Beuys<\/strong> for Documenta in Kassel. We had to plant 7,000 oak trees… At a small party on the last day, Beuys went around asking each of us what we wanted to do with our lives. Of course, everyone replied, \u201cI want to be an artist<\/em>.\u201d But I\u2019d already realized this wasn\u2019t the path for me. I didn\u2019t know what to say, so I improvised. \u201cI\u2019m going back to Austria to open my own gallery<\/em>.\u201d And I dared to add: \u201cWill you do an exhibition with me?<\/em>“<\/p>\n\n\n

To which he replied, \u201cIf you do it seriously, yes<\/em>.\u201d And he would keep his word. Then I ventured another request: \u201cI know you\u2019re friends with Andy Warhol<\/strong><\/a>, and it just so happens I want to go to the United States. Would you write me a letter of recommendation?<\/em>\u201d Beuys took a piece of paper and scribbled: \u201cAndy, let me introduce you to a talented young man. Thank you for agreeing to meet him<\/em>.\u201d That was my ticket to America.<\/p><\/p>\n\n\n

And did you end up meeting Warhol?<\/strong>
I went to the Pan Am ticket office and booked a flight to New York. I knocked on the door at the Factory. I didn\u2019t even have an appointment. Naturally, they laughed in my face. But I stood my ground \u2013 after all, I had a letter of recommendation from Beuys! In the end, Fred Hughes, Warhol\u2019s manager, received me in a rather strange room. \u201cWhy do you want to meet Andy Warhol? Give me a reason. You can\u2019t just show up like this<\/em>.\u201d So I explained that I wanted to organize an exhibition in Austria. To which he replied, \u201cAnd how much cash do you have?<\/em>\u201d Obviously, I had none, so he kindly suggested I go home and come back when I did. That could have been the end of it…<\/p>\n\n

At this point, you still hadn\u2019t met Warhol?<\/strong>
Actually, I had without realizing it. I was so focused on Fred Hughes that I hadn\u2019t noticed someone else in the corner of the room. Someone who, seeing the state I was in, eventually spoke up. \u201cDon\u2019t be so hard on this young man<\/em>.\u201d It was Andy Warhol<\/strong>. He motioned for me to sit next to him and explained that I should work with artists of my own generation, and that he would introduce me to one if I came back at five o\u2019clock. I was so nervous that I got lost in New York. And at five we went off together to Jean-Michel Basquiat<\/strong><\/a>\u2019s studio \u2013 the artist with whom I did my first show in Austria.<\/p>\n\n\n

People sometimes say I was a visionary or that I had an incredible eye. Not at all \u2013 it was sheer luck! I had no idea who Basquiat was. At his studio, I didn\u2019t say to myself, “You\u2019re discovering an exceptional artist,\u201d because I was far too stressed and overwhelmed. We lived on completely different planets, to the point that, later, at another show, Jean-Michel apologized for not including kangaroos in his paintings. He\u2019d confused Austria with Australia!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button>
Thaddaeus Ropac in his Milan gallery in front of the artwork
Concetto spaziale, Forma <\/em>(1957), by Lucio Fontana.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

\u201cI find the art world far more exciting today. Back then, it was incredibly elitist\u2026<\/em>\u201d\u2013 Thaddaeus Ropac<\/h3><\/h2>\n\n\n

Do you feel nostalgia for the \u201cgood old days\u201d?<\/strong>
Absolutely not! There\u2019s no such thing as the \u201cgood old days.\u201d I find the art world far more exciting today. Back then, it was incredibly elitist, just a small, closed clique. It was very limited intellectually, and impossible to break into \u2013 an ivory tower. Look how much more inclusive the art world is today. It no longer centres just on Europe or North America but the whole globe. Artists are no longer all white men. If you\u2019d seen who I represented 20 years ago, there were very few women. I was a product of that world.<\/p>\n\n

Let\u2019s talk about today then. Where did you fly in from, since you just stepped off the plane?<\/strong>
I spent a few days at my place in the south of France, near Saint-Tropez. It\u2019s a real pity the region suffers from such a bad reputation. I can assure you that the cheesy, vulgar Saint-Tropez is only a small part of it. The rest is stunning. The landscapes are exceptional!<\/p>\n\n

I must admit, I find it hard to picture you at Nikki Beach…
<\/strong>Yes, and what\u2019s more the Saint-Tropez region wasn\u2019t my first choice. I\u2019d been searching for a property in the south for ten years. I looked around Aix, the Luberon, and Provence more generally. But I found nothing I liked. And then I was offered an incredible property of several hectares, surrounded by nature… But overlooking Saint-Tropez! It was out of the question, but I went to see it anyway. And I must admit that I was won over. So now I have to cope with the the rather funny fact that I live five minutes by car from Saint-Tropez.<\/p>\n\n\n

\"Thaddaeus\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button>
Thaddaeus Ropac photographed by Maurizio Annese for the opening of his new gallery in Milan last September.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n

Have you installed any artworks there?<\/strong>
Well, I asked Baselitz to do a project for the swimming pool. I knew exactly how to convince him: Matisse did a swimming pool, and the original drawings are on permanent display at the MoMA in New York. Naturally, that excited him. And he suggested drawing his wife, naked, as she is today, with all the imperfections of an 80-year-old. You must remember that, when Baselitz was a young man in Germany, he dreamed of Hollywood. So for him, my swimming pool had to be blue, like in California. And that\u2019s where the problems started. The region is extremely protected, and the regulations require swimming pools in the south of France to be green.<\/p>\n\n

I imagine they made an exception for Baselitz?<\/strong>
Of course. After some negotiation…<\/p>\n\n\n

\u201cAfter all, it\u2019s been one of the most extraordinary countries for art for millennia<\/em>.\u201d \u2013 Thaddaeus Ropac<\/h3><\/h2>\n\n\n

On a completely different note, you\u2019ve just opened a gallery in Milan, which many now consider the new El Dorado for millionaires and billionaires fleeing London after the repeal of the very favourable non-dom tax laws.<\/strong>
I hate the idea that we\u2019re opening the gallery in that context. That\u2019s not what drew me to Milan. I never do market research, even if I admit that we will benefit greatly from this phenomenon. The idea actually started brewing five years ago, after we opened our gallery in Seoul. I asked myself: \u201cWhere should I go now?<\/em>\u201d I wanted to strengthen my presence in Europe. We were already well established in the German-speaking world, in Austria, in France of course, and in the UK. Italy was sorely missing from this picture. After all, it\u2019s been one of the most extraordinary countries for art for millennia. Even France can\u2019t compare.<\/p>\n\n

With this new address, you now run a team of 150 people. What kind of boss are you?
<\/strong>Unfortunately, I\u2019m still a control freak, right down to the smallest detail. But, on the other hand, I\u2019m learning to give my staff more freedom. In Milan, I let the director put together her own team…<\/p>\n\n\n

\"\"\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button>
Thaddaeus Ropac photographed by Maurizio Annese for the opening of his new gallery in Milan last September.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

\u201cI didn\u2019t expect our arrival in Milan to create such a stir.<\/em>\u201d \u2013 Thaddaeus Ropac<\/h3><\/h2>\n\n\n

Do you have any personal ties to the city?<\/strong>
I regularly travelled there for exhibitions, and for the opera, of course. The fact that our gallery is so close to La Scala<\/strong> was a huge draw. But I never went there specifically for fashion or design. I\u2019ve never been shopping in Milan, even for a T-shirt. And I never went to a fashion show.<\/p>\n\n

And yet you\u2019ve developed ties with the fashion world.<\/strong>
Yes, absolutely. I\u2019ve known Miuccia Prada<\/strong><\/a> for years. She\u2019s connected to our programme and our artists. And a few days before the announcement last January of our Milan opening, I was having dinner with Raf Simons<\/strong><\/a>, who now works with her. Raf told me how much Milan needed a gallery like ours. But I couldn\u2019t reveal anything yet. I had to bite my tongue. It was very funny. Naturally, when he found out he gave me a hard time in rather crude terms. [Laughs.] But we\u2019re friends. All of this is to say that I didn\u2019t expect our arrival in Milan to create such a stir. Not to sound too pretentious, but the city didn\u2019t have a gallery of our calibre. There\u2019s Gagosian in Rome, and that\u2019s it.<\/p>\n\n

What should a Thaddaeus Ropac gallery look like? The one in Milan occupies an 18th-century palace.<\/strong>
It should never be a white cube.\u00a0Each Ropac space is different. In Pantin, for example, we\u2019ve just opened a bistro.<\/p>\n\n

Why not a Ropac hotel?<\/strong>
No, I don\u2019t want to become a lifestyle gallery…<\/p>\n\n\n

\"\"\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button>
Robert Rauschenberg,
Summer Glut Fence<\/em> (1987). Assembled metal and plastic objects. 107 x 220 x 19 cm. \u00a9 Courtesy of Thaddaeus Ropac gallery, London, Paris, Salzburg, Milan, Seoul.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

\u201cOpera, you know, is a taste you develop. It\u2019s not like art, which comes more naturally to me<\/em>.\u201d – Thaddaeus Ropac<\/h3><\/h2>\n\n\n

You mentioned that opera was one of your passions.<\/strong>
Opera, you know, is a taste you develop. It\u2019s not like art, which comes more naturally to me. Obviously, I\u2019m always trying to learn, to contextualize art, etc. But once again, I believe that taste in art is innate, whereas opera requires an education. I first went to the opera when I was 25, in Salzburg, for a work I no longer actually like, Carmen<\/strong><\/em>. My taste has developed since then, and I\u2019ve turned to Wagner.<\/p>\n\n\n

At the opera, though I may feel great emotion, I\u2019m essentially silent. I learn. I only appreciate it afterwards. Opera is the most complete and demanding art form. Everything must be perfect \u2013 you need the best singers, orchestra, and conductor, a visionary director, and so on.<\/p>\n\n\n

Do you enjoy opera alone or with friends?<\/strong>
I love sharing those moments. Every year, when she goes to the Salzburg Festival, I\u2019m in touch with [Pinault Collection<\/strong> curator, ed.] Caroline Bourgeois. She\u2019s obsessed with the conductor Theodor Currentzis. No matter what he does, she loves it. It\u2019s both frightening and fascinating! My friend Amira Casar is also an opera lover. As is the painter Elizabeth Peyton. And Baselitz, of course.<\/p>\n\n\n

\"\"\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button>
Thaddaeus Ropac photographed by Maurizio Annese for the opening of his new gallery in Milan last September.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

“I always felt Paris was more sophisticated than London or New York.” <\/em>\u2013 Thaddaeus Ropac<\/h3><\/h2>\n\n\n

Are you a harsh critic?<\/strong>
I\u2019m demanding. For instance, this summer I went to Aix for Don Giovanni<\/em><\/strong>. It wasn\u2019t very good. And the Paris Opera?<\/strong> It\u2019s OK. Maybe not the most exciting place, but OK. I still can\u2019t quite figure out exactly what the orchestra\u2019s repertoire is. Normally, when you think of an orchestra, you immediately think of what it excels at. I imagine it could be Rameau or Bizet, but they\u2019re not really my cup of tea. And I\u2019m not a big fan of Offenbach either.<\/p>\n\n

Does Paris play an important role in your life?
<\/strong>Of course. When I opened my gallery in Paris, in 1990, everyone asked, \u201cWhy not London? Or New York?<\/em>\u201d But I always felt Paris was more sophisticated. Less focused on money. At any rate, success there isn\u2019t measured solely in terms of money. And Paris offers greater diversity. I never feel trapped in the art ghetto there. The art scene can easily engulf your whole life \u2013 your work, your social life, your network… During all those years when Paris wasn\u2019t really a major art hub, it was quite easy to keep a foot outside.<\/p>\n\n

Is there somewhere you can get away from it all?<\/strong>
Nowadays, there\u2019s the south of France. I also own a property in Greece, on Hydra. But I hardly ever go there. It\u2019s too far for just a weekend. But artists love it. My friends too, like Norman Foster<\/strong>.<\/p>\n\n\n

\"Eva\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button>
Eva Helene Pade,
Skygge over m\u00e6ngden<\/em> (Shadow above the crowd<\/em>) (2025). Oil on canvas. 300 x 450 cm. Courtesy of Thaddaeus Ropac gallery, London, Paris, Salzburg, Milan, Seoul.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n

As a dealer, what do you find most exciting <\/strong>right now?
<\/strong>Young artists, I think. We just signed an incredible young painter, Eva Helene Pade<\/strong>. She\u2019s only 27, from Denmark. One of our London colleagues discovered her at an exhibition in Copenhagen. She now lives in Pantin, where she has her studio. And she\u2019ll have her first show at our London gallery in October.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

And what about Milan?<\/strong>
For the moment, our first two exhibitions will be more historic \u201cduo shows\u201d that pair an artist from the gallery with an Italian artist. Firstly, two men: Fontana<\/strong> and Baselitz<\/strong>. Then two women: VALIE EXPORT<\/strong> and Ketty La <\/strong>Rocca<\/strong>. I was speechless when I discovered La Rocca’s work \u2013 I\u2019d never heard of her before. I must admit that, in opening the gallery in Milan, I\u2019ve discovered more exceptional Italian artists from the 50s, 60s and 70s than young contemporary artists. But let\u2019s wait and see what the future has in store\u2026

\u201cRobert Rauschenberg, Gluts (1986\u20131994),\u201d from October 20th to November 22nd, 2025, at Thaddaeus Ropac gallery<\/a>, Paris 3rd. The artist showcases one of his early explorations of metal through found objects assembled and riveted to create wall reliefs and freestanding sculptures.

<\/em>First solo exhibition of Danish artist Eva Helene Pade, from October 14th to November 22nd, 2025, at Thaddaeus Ropac gallery, London.

\u201cGeorg Baselitz and Lucio Fontana. L\u2019aurora viene,\u201d on view until December 9th, 2025, at Thaddaeus Ropac gallery, Milan. The show will be followed by an exhibition dedicated to VALIE EXPORT and Ketty La Rocca. <\/em><\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Interview with gallerist Thaddaeus Ropac for Num\u00e9ro art Num\u00e9ro art: What would you like to […]<\/p>\n

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