{"id":755212,"date":"2025-11-07T15:10:28","date_gmt":"2025-11-07T14:10:28","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/numero.com\/?p=755212"},"modified":"2025-11-07T15:10:31","modified_gmt":"2025-11-07T14:10:31","slug":"fondation-cartier-the-duo-formafantasma-unveils-the-new-space-with-its-director-chris-dercon","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/numero.com\/en\/art-design\/numero-art-en\/fondation-cartier-the-duo-formafantasma-unveils-the-new-space-with-its-director-chris-dercon\/","title":{"rendered":"Fondation Cartier: The duo Formafantasma unveils the new space with its director Chris Dercon"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{&quot;imageId&quot;:&quot;6a20e149ca756&quot;}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\" data-wp-key=\"6a20e149ca756\" class=\"wp-block-image size-full wp-lightbox-container\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"900\" height=\"577\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--pointerdown=\"actions.preloadImage\" data-wp-on--pointerenter=\"actions.preloadImageWithDelay\" data-wp-on--pointerleave=\"actions.cancelPreload\" data-wp-on-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" src=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/Nick_Chard_Formafantasma_08a-1.jpg\" alt=\"fondation cartier formafantasma\" class=\"wp-image-744720\"\/><button\n\t\t\tclass=\"lightbox-trigger\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"button\"\n\t\t\taria-haspopup=\"dialog\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-bind--aria-label=\"state.thisImage.triggerButtonAriaLabel\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-init=\"callbacks.initTriggerButton\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--right=\"state.thisImage.buttonRight\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--top=\"state.thisImage.buttonTop\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"12\" height=\"12\" fill=\"none\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\">\n\t\t\t\t<path fill=\"#fff\" d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" \/>\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The duo Formafantasma photographed by Nick Chard for <em>Num\u00e9ro art.<\/em><br\/>Hair and makeup: Cicci Svahn at Calliste Agency. Assistant photographer: Louis Jay. Retouching: Notion.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.numero.com\/en\/27-numero-art\"><em>Num\u00e9ro art 17 is available at newsstands and on iPad since October 18th<\/em>,\u00a0<em>2025.<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The Fondation Cartier opens its new space in front of the Louvre<\/h2>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><p class=\"p1\">This autumn, the <strong>Fondation Cartier pour l\u2019art contemporain<\/strong> took up residence in Paris\u2019s place du Palais-Royal, just opposite the <strong>Louvre<\/strong>, in a Haussmann-era building entirely renovated by the architect <strong>Jean Nouvel<\/strong>. To inaugurate its new home, the foundation\u2019s director, <strong>Chris Dercon<\/strong>, decided to display a selection of 600 iconic pieces from its holdings. Titled Exposition g\u00e9n\u00e9rale and imagined as a \u201cstatement,\u201d the show seeks to underline the breadth and coherence of an exceptional collection that is marked by a taste for transdisciplinarity, cultural diversity, attention to all forms of the living, craftsmanship, architecture, and science\u2026<\/p><\/p>\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">A building reinvented by Jean Nouvel and a space reimagined by Formafantasma<\/h2>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><p class=\"p1\">In the heart of the 19th-century building, Nouvel has installed five hydraulic platforms, which allow a certain porosity between the works as well as great fluidity of visitor circulation. For the exhibition design, the foundation called on Italian design duo <strong>Formafantasma<\/strong> (Simone Farresin and Andrea Trimarchi), in keeping with a drive to reimagine the way art is shown: breaking with the <em>white cube<\/em> approach, Exposition g\u00e9n\u00e9rale favours circularity, openness, transparency, and a plurality of forms. For <em>Num\u00e9ro art<\/em>, <strong>Dercon<\/strong> and <strong>Formafantasma<\/strong> sat down to discuss the show\u2019s curatorial goals.<\/p><\/p>\n\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{&quot;imageId&quot;:&quot;6a20e149caba4&quot;}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\" data-wp-key=\"6a20e149caba4\" class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized wp-lightbox-container\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"600\" height=\"900\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--pointerdown=\"actions.preloadImage\" data-wp-on--pointerenter=\"actions.preloadImageWithDelay\" data-wp-on--pointerleave=\"actions.cancelPreload\" data-wp-on-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" src=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/Nick_Chard_Formafantasma_01-1.jpg\" alt=\"fondation cartier x formafantasma numero art \" class=\"wp-image-744706\" style=\"width:600px;height:auto\"\/><button\n\t\t\tclass=\"lightbox-trigger\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"button\"\n\t\t\taria-haspopup=\"dialog\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-bind--aria-label=\"state.thisImage.triggerButtonAriaLabel\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-init=\"callbacks.initTriggerButton\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--right=\"state.thisImage.buttonRight\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--top=\"state.thisImage.buttonTop\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"12\" height=\"12\" fill=\"none\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\">\n\t\t\t\t<path fill=\"#fff\" d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" \/>\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The designer duo Formafantasma at the Fondation Cartier during the installation of the opening exhibition. Simone Farresin (left) et Andrea Trimarchi (right) pose in front of the artwork <em>Muro en Rojos<\/em> (1982) by Olga de Amaral. Photo by Nick Chard for <em>Num\u00e9ro art.<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Joint interview with Chris Dercon and Formafantasma<\/h2>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><p class=\"p1\"><strong><em>Num\u00e9ro art<\/em>: Why did you choose to show the foundation\u2019s collection, rather than the work of a single artist, for the opening of the new building on the place du Palais-Royal?<\/strong>&#13;\n<strong>Chris Dercon:<\/strong> The collection has been shown several times before, but never in a way that allows visitors to understand its scope and richness. When I talk with Parisian friends and even colleagues, I realize that almost no one is really familiar with the collection. People have heard of it or read about it, but it\u2019s never really been made visible. I like the word \u201cvisible,\u201d because it also refers to <a href=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/en\/art-design\/numero-art-en\/on-the-cover-of-numero-art-17-the-formafantasma-duo-unveils-the-new-fondation-cartier\/\"><strong>Formafantasma<\/strong><\/a>\u2019s work. They\u2019re \u201cdisplay designers,\u201d which is to say that they work on the cusp of design, industrial design, and architecture, somewhere between anthropology and sociology.&#13;\n&#13;\nFor me, they embody a new generation of \u201cpractitioners of the in-between.\u201d \u201cDisplay\u201d comes from the Latin <em>displicare<\/em>, which means \u201cto unfold, or make visible.\u201d The point of exhibiting the collection is to make visible the history of the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.fondationcartier.com\/en\">Fondation Cartier<\/a>, to show that it\u2019s very different from other private collections because it\u2019s transdisciplinary. I don\u2019t mean to say \u201cinterdisciplinary,\u201d but \u201ctransdisciplinary.\u201d<\/p><\/p>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><p class=\"p1\"><strong>What does \u201ctransdisciplinary\u201d mean for you?&#13;\n<\/strong><strong>Chris Dercon:<\/strong> I\u2019m using the word in the sense of \u201csituated between disciplines,\u201d which is to say between art and design, between design and architecture, and between art and craft. Our collection represents multiple disciplines, and <em>Exposition g\u00e9n\u00e9rale<\/em> is a unique opportunity to make visible this sort of in-between. That\u2019s what sets us apart from most other institutions.<\/p><\/p>\n\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{&quot;imageId&quot;:&quot;6a20e149caf50&quot;}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\" data-wp-key=\"6a20e149caf50\" class=\"wp-block-image size-full wp-lightbox-container\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"687\" height=\"900\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--pointerdown=\"actions.preloadImage\" data-wp-on--pointerenter=\"actions.preloadImageWithDelay\" data-wp-on--pointerleave=\"actions.cancelPreload\" data-wp-on-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" src=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/Nick_Chard_Formafantasma_06a-1.jpg\" alt=\"fondation cartier x formafantasma numero art\" class=\"wp-image-744716\"\/><button\n\t\t\tclass=\"lightbox-trigger\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"button\"\n\t\t\taria-haspopup=\"dialog\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-bind--aria-label=\"state.thisImage.triggerButtonAriaLabel\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-init=\"callbacks.initTriggerButton\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--right=\"state.thisImage.buttonRight\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--top=\"state.thisImage.buttonTop\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"12\" height=\"12\" fill=\"none\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\">\n\t\t\t\t<path fill=\"#fff\" d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" \/>\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The duo Formafantasma photographed by Nick Chard for <em>Num\u00e9ro art.<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{&quot;imageId&quot;:&quot;6a20e149cb233&quot;}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\" data-wp-key=\"6a20e149cb233\" class=\"wp-block-image size-full wp-lightbox-container\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"687\" height=\"900\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--pointerdown=\"actions.preloadImage\" data-wp-on--pointerenter=\"actions.preloadImageWithDelay\" data-wp-on--pointerleave=\"actions.cancelPreload\" data-wp-on-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" src=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/Nick_Chard_Formafantasma_04-1.jpg\" alt=\"fondation cartier x formafantasma numero art\" class=\"wp-image-744712\"\/><button\n\t\t\tclass=\"lightbox-trigger\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"button\"\n\t\t\taria-haspopup=\"dialog\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-bind--aria-label=\"state.thisImage.triggerButtonAriaLabel\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-init=\"callbacks.initTriggerButton\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--right=\"state.thisImage.buttonRight\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--top=\"state.thisImage.buttonTop\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"12\" height=\"12\" fill=\"none\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\">\n\t\t\t\t<path fill=\"#fff\" d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" \/>\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The duo Formafantasma photographed by Nick Chard for <em>Num\u00e9ro art.<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center\"><h2 style=\"text-align: center;\">&#8220;<em>Formafantasma work between anthropology and sociology. For me, they embody a new generation of &#8220;practitioners of the in-between.&#8217;<\/em>&#8221; &#8211; Chris Dercon<\/h2><\/h2>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><p class=\"p1\"><strong>In what ways does Nouvel\u2019s building contribue to this idea of the in-between?<\/strong>&#13;\n<strong>Chris Dercon:<\/strong> <strong>Jean Nouvel<\/strong>\u2019s building is very open and creates a real sense of <strong>dialogue<\/strong>, because it allows the pieces to converse among themselves. The collection was built up over the course of different exhibitions: sometimes we\u2019d buy entire shows, at others only a few selected pieces, and at others just a single work, as with <strong>Olga de Amaral<\/strong> and <a href=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/en\/art\/art-art\/inside-damien-hirsts-studio-contemporary-art-superstar-currently-shown-at-fondation-cartier-2\/\"><strong>Damien Hirst<\/strong><\/a>. We\u2019ve also acquired commissions. Little by little, the visitor understands \u2013 as Italian philosopher Emmanuele Coccia writes in the catalogue \u2013 that the collection and the exhibitions function when one work reacts to another. And that becomes visible once more \u2013 I insist on the word. Nouvel\u2019s building lends itself perfectly to this: it creates this visibility.&#13;\n&#13;\n<\/p><br\/><p class=\"p1\">There\u2019s another reason we called the show<em> Exposition g\u00e9n\u00e9rale<\/em>. In the 19th century, with the rise of the Parisian department store, people spoke of \u201csalons of modernity\u201d and \u201cgeneral exhibitions.\u201d Think of <strong>Colette<\/strong>, the concept store, which displayed the tools and signs of modernity, including works of art. We really like this idea, especially since we\u2019re right opposite the Louvre. So we decided to keep the term.<\/p><\/p>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><p class=\"p1\">Our building gives onto the rue Saint-Honor\u00e9 and the rue de Rivoli. <strong>Formafantasma<\/strong> and our curators understood this well. We can play with this idea of visibility, making the interior visible from the street, and vice versa. There\u2019s a unique moment in the exhibition where you see two works by <strong>Ch\u00e9ri Samba<\/strong> and, at the same time, on the other side of the street, visitors looking at Greek and Roman sculptures in the Louvre. It\u2019s amazing!<\/p><\/p>\n\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{&quot;galleryId&quot;:&quot;6a20e149cb3c2&quot;}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/gallery\" class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-1 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{&quot;imageId&quot;:&quot;6a20e149cb5f3&quot;}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\" data-wp-key=\"6a20e149cb5f3\" class=\"wp-block-image size-large wp-lightbox-container\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"711\" height=\"1024\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--pointerdown=\"actions.preloadImage\" data-wp-on--pointerenter=\"actions.preloadImageWithDelay\" data-wp-on--pointerleave=\"actions.cancelPreload\" data-wp-on-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-id=\"744458\" src=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/Freddy-Mamani_Salon-de-Eventos-fondation-cartier-711x1024.jpg\" alt=\"Freddy Mamani Salon de Eventos Fondation Cartier\" class=\"wp-image-744458\"\/><button\n\t\t\tclass=\"lightbox-trigger\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"button\"\n\t\t\taria-haspopup=\"dialog\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-bind--aria-label=\"state.thisImage.triggerButtonAriaLabel\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-init=\"callbacks.initTriggerButton\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--right=\"state.thisImage.buttonRight\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--top=\"state.thisImage.buttonTop\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"12\" height=\"12\" fill=\"none\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\">\n\t\t\t\t<path fill=\"#fff\" d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" \/>\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">View of the exhibition. Fondation Cartier pour l\u2019art contemporain, 2025. Freddy Mamani, <em>Sal\u00f3n de eventos<\/em> (2018). Photo \u00a9 Marc Domage.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{&quot;imageId&quot;:&quot;6a20e149cb8f5&quot;}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\" data-wp-key=\"6a20e149cb8f5\" class=\"wp-block-image size-large wp-lightbox-container\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"683\" height=\"1024\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--pointerdown=\"actions.preloadImage\" data-wp-on--pointerenter=\"actions.preloadImageWithDelay\" data-wp-on--pointerleave=\"actions.cancelPreload\" data-wp-on-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-id=\"744468\" src=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/Virgil-Ortiz_Olga-de-Amaral-fondation-cartier-683x1024.jpg\" alt=\"Virgil Ortiz Olga de Amaral Fondation Cartier\" class=\"wp-image-744468\"\/><button\n\t\t\tclass=\"lightbox-trigger\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"button\"\n\t\t\taria-haspopup=\"dialog\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-bind--aria-label=\"state.thisImage.triggerButtonAriaLabel\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-init=\"callbacks.initTriggerButton\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--right=\"state.thisImage.buttonRight\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--top=\"state.thisImage.buttonTop\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"12\" height=\"12\" fill=\"none\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\">\n\t\t\t\t<path fill=\"#fff\" d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" \/>\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">View of the exhibition. Fondation Cartier pour l\u2019art contemporain, 2025. Virgil Ortiz, <em>Opera Singer Mono<\/em> (2001) \/ Olga de Amaral, <em>Muro en rojos<\/em> (1982). Photo \u00a9 Marc Domage.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/figure>\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center\"><h2 style=\"text-align: center;\">\u201c<em>The way the Fondation Cartier establishes relationships between architecture, art, photography, and numerous other disciplines is highly contemporary. It doesn\u2019t seek to &#8216;equalize&#8217; but to &#8216;connect&#8217;.<\/em> \u201d \u2013 Simone Farresin<\/h2><\/h2>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><p class=\"p1\"><strong>Simone and Andrea, what struck you the first time you saw Nouvel\u2019s building? What were your guiding principles when you started working in the space?<\/strong>&#13;\n<strong>Simone Farresin:<\/strong> Chris is right in describing our work as being between disciplines \u2013 that\u2019s exactly what we\u2019re trying to do. We always say that our work is ambiguous, but we consider this ambiguity a strength. It also reflects the complexity of the world. Being just one thing is no longer enough; it\u2019s better to be multiple. In our work, we try to embrace this ability to be several things at once. For us, the building\u2019s key quality is that it\u2019s almost indifferent to art. By that I mean that it doesn\u2019t correspond to the usual white-cube context we\u2019ve become used to for the display of <strong>contemporary art<\/strong>.&#13;\n&#13;\n<\/p><br\/><p class=\"p1\">Here we understand that the idea is to see all the works in relation to one another. It\u2019s very exciting. It allows us to question contemporary art and preconceived ideas about how certain works should be shown. That\u2019s how we work, too. We\u2019re not here simply to serve the work, but to make an exhibition that says something with the work. We think there\u2019s no such thing as complete neutrality. You can\u2019t just serve the work without saying anything.<\/p><\/p>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><p class=\"p1\"><strong>Andrea Trimarchi:<\/strong> Our initial reaction was indeed one of interest in what such an open building could offer. We and the curatorial team immediately understood that we wanted to interfere as little as possible with the <strong>architecture<\/strong>. We wanted both to exhibit the works and show Nouvel\u2019s architecture to advantage, not because we sought to serve it, but because we found it stimulating. This was all the more important given that this is the first exhibition in the building, so it\u2019s the first time the public will be seeing it. We wanted to maintain as much as possible the opportunities it offers for establishing relations between works.<\/p><\/p>\n\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{&quot;imageId&quot;:&quot;6a20e149cbfa0&quot;}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\" data-wp-key=\"6a20e149cbfa0\" class=\"wp-block-image size-full wp-lightbox-container\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"900\" height=\"643\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--pointerdown=\"actions.preloadImage\" data-wp-on--pointerenter=\"actions.preloadImageWithDelay\" data-wp-on--pointerleave=\"actions.cancelPreload\" data-wp-on-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" src=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/Nick_Chard_Formafantasma_03-1.jpg\" alt=\"fondation cartier x formafantasma numero art\" class=\"wp-image-744710\"\/><button\n\t\t\tclass=\"lightbox-trigger\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"button\"\n\t\t\taria-haspopup=\"dialog\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-bind--aria-label=\"state.thisImage.triggerButtonAriaLabel\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-init=\"callbacks.initTriggerButton\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--right=\"state.thisImage.buttonRight\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--top=\"state.thisImage.buttonTop\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"12\" height=\"12\" fill=\"none\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\">\n\t\t\t\t<path fill=\"#fff\" d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" \/>\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The duo Formafantasma at the Fondation Cartier during the installation of the opening exhibition in front of the artwork <em>Gazebo<\/em> (2008) by Andrea Branzi. Photo by Nick Chard for<em> Num\u00e9ro art.<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><p class=\"p1\"><strong>Simone Farresin:<\/strong> Another aspect, which Chris has already mentioned and which I consider essential, is the word he used, \u201c<strong>transdisciplinary<\/strong>.\u201d The way the <strong>Fondation Cartier<\/strong> establishes relationships between architecture, art, photography, and numerous other disciplines is highly contemporary. It\u2019s not like at the MoMA, which has specific departments. Here, there are no departments. The foundation doesn\u2019t seek to equalize but to connect. The building is perfect for that. Its history is another source of inspiration. We wanted to make discreet references to its commercial past through the materials we used, for example by including textiles in the display design. We\u2019re not just looking at the museographic tradition, but also at traditions of furniture design and materiality.<\/p><\/p>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Andrea Trimarchi: <\/strong>One can\u2019t deny the complexity of working in such a building, where some spaces have low ceilings and others are vast. You have to take that into account when designing the exhibition. But it also offers a huge advantage, which is that you\u2019re not limited to thinking about the display solely from the visitor\u2019s horizontal perspective, since you can build galleries vertically. For example, we\u2019ve \u201csuspended\u201d certain works, as though they were floating in space. You can be on the ground floor and look up at works on a completely different scale, floating in the air.<\/p>\n\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{&quot;imageId&quot;:&quot;6a20e149cc575&quot;}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\" data-wp-key=\"6a20e149cc575\" class=\"wp-block-image size-large wp-lightbox-container\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--pointerdown=\"actions.preloadImage\" data-wp-on--pointerenter=\"actions.preloadImageWithDelay\" data-wp-on--pointerleave=\"actions.cancelPreload\" data-wp-on-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" src=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/View-from-platform-2_Ron-Mueck_Solange-Pessoa_Olga-de-Amaral-1024x683.jpg\" alt=\"View of the exhibition fondation cartier Ron Mueck Solange Pessoa Olga de Amaral\" class=\"wp-image-744466\"\/><button\n\t\t\tclass=\"lightbox-trigger\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"button\"\n\t\t\taria-haspopup=\"dialog\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-bind--aria-label=\"state.thisImage.triggerButtonAriaLabel\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-init=\"callbacks.initTriggerButton\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--right=\"state.thisImage.buttonRight\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--top=\"state.thisImage.buttonTop\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"12\" height=\"12\" fill=\"none\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\">\n\t\t\t\t<path fill=\"#fff\" d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" \/>\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">View of the exhibition. Fondation Cartier pour l\u2019art contemporain, 2025. Ron Mueck, <em>Woman with Shopping<\/em> (2013) \/ Solange Pessoa, <em>Mirac\u00e9us<\/em> (2014-2018) \/ Olga de Amaral, <em>Muro en rojos<\/em> (1982). Photo \u00a9 Cyril Marcilhacy.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{&quot;imageId&quot;:&quot;6a20e149cc8bb&quot;}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\" data-wp-key=\"6a20e149cc8bb\" class=\"wp-block-image size-large wp-lightbox-container\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"670\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--pointerdown=\"actions.preloadImage\" data-wp-on--pointerenter=\"actions.preloadImageWithDelay\" data-wp-on--pointerleave=\"actions.cancelPreload\" data-wp-on-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" src=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/View-from-platform-1_Alessandro-Mendini_Bodys-Isek-Kengelez_Alessandro-Mendini-and-Peter-Halley-1024x670.jpg\" alt=\"fondation cartier Alessandro Mendini Bodys Isek Kengelez Alessandro Mendini and Peter-Halley\" class=\"wp-image-744464\"\/><button\n\t\t\tclass=\"lightbox-trigger\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"button\"\n\t\t\taria-haspopup=\"dialog\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-bind--aria-label=\"state.thisImage.triggerButtonAriaLabel\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-init=\"callbacks.initTriggerButton\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--right=\"state.thisImage.buttonRight\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--top=\"state.thisImage.buttonTop\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"12\" height=\"12\" fill=\"none\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\">\n\t\t\t\t<path fill=\"#fff\" d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" \/>\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">View of the exhibition. Fondation Cartier pour l\u2019art contemporain, 2025. Alessandro Mendini, <em>Visage archa\u00efque<\/em> (2002) and <em>Petite Cath\u00e9drale<\/em> (2002) \/ Alessandro Mendini &amp; Peter Halley, <em>Code Warrior<\/em> (1997) and <em>OMG!<\/em> (2014) \/ Bodys Isek Kingelez, <em>Projet pour le Kinshasa du troisi\u00e8me mill\u00e9naire<\/em> (1997) \/ Junya Ishigami, <em>Chapel of Valley<\/em> (2016). Photo \u00a9 Marc Domage.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center\"><h2 style=\"text-align: center;\">\u201c<em>We were adamant the exhibition shouldn\u2019t become monumental, as in spectacular. We wanted to maintain the intimacy of the old building.<\/em>\u201d \u2013 Simone Farresin<\/h2><\/h2>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Chris Dercon : <\/strong>You use the word \u201cscale.\u201d I love that, because this building isn\u2019t obsessed with size, like a lot of others. There\u2019s a big difference between size and scale. Size is something you can choose: large, small, immense. Scale, however, is a human dimension. It\u2019s given to you, it\u2019s not a choice. In this building, <strong>David Lynch<\/strong>\u2019s small drawings work at the same scale \u2013 I\u2019m not talking about size \u2013 as <strong>Richard Artschwager<\/strong>\u2019s tree trunk.<\/p>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So we can\u2019t be accused of spectacularizing our spaces, as we often see in certain biennials or museums. It\u2019s what\u2019s sometimes called XXL art, blown up to extremes, which has nothing to do with scale, sculpture, or architecture. Here, it\u2019s different. We combine the questions raised by design, architecture, painting, and sculpture. And we can combine them because Andrea, Simone, and I have been working around a key concept, namely scale.<\/p>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Simone Farresin: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s essential. From the outset, we knew there\u2019d inevitably be monumental moments, but we were adamant the exhibition shouldn\u2019t become monumental, as in spectacular. We wanted to maintain the intimacy of the old building on the boulevard Raspail, to show smaller works, and to give visitors the chance to experience these multiple scales. And, to be honest, the building allows that, because it offers both very intimate and vast spaces. That was our goal from the start: to prove you can still show intimate works despite the complex spatiality.<\/p>\n\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{&quot;imageId&quot;:&quot;6a20e149ccca0&quot;}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\" data-wp-key=\"6a20e149ccca0\" class=\"wp-block-image size-full wp-lightbox-container\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"687\" height=\"900\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--pointerdown=\"actions.preloadImage\" data-wp-on--pointerenter=\"actions.preloadImageWithDelay\" data-wp-on--pointerleave=\"actions.cancelPreload\" data-wp-on-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" src=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/Nick_Chard_Formafantasma_05b-1.jpg\" alt=\"fondation cartier x formafantasma numero art\" class=\"wp-image-744714\"\/><button\n\t\t\tclass=\"lightbox-trigger\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"button\"\n\t\t\taria-haspopup=\"dialog\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-bind--aria-label=\"state.thisImage.triggerButtonAriaLabel\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-init=\"callbacks.initTriggerButton\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--right=\"state.thisImage.buttonRight\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--top=\"state.thisImage.buttonTop\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"12\" height=\"12\" fill=\"none\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\">\n\t\t\t\t<path fill=\"#fff\" d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" \/>\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The duo Formafantasma at the Fondation Cartier during the installation of the opening exhibition in front of the artwork <em>Gazebo<\/em> (2008) by Andrea Branzi. Photo by Nick Chard for<em> Num\u00e9ro art.<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Chris Dercon: <\/strong>There\u2019s often a problem with things that move in multimedia exhibitions, by which I mean videos and machine-like kinetic installations. Strangely enough, when I went back to Nouvel\u2019s building this morning, I realized it\u2019s a kind of viewing machine, an observation machine. And, amazingly, this time the videos work really well with the still works. Kinetic installations like <strong>Sarah Sze<\/strong>\u2019s interact perfectly with the fixed works because the building itself also has this machine-like quality. There\u2019s a dynamic relationship, which also comes from there being a dynamic observer, almost like in <strong>Caillebotte<\/strong>\u2019s paintings or <strong>Piranesi<\/strong>\u2019s drawings. The visitor\u2019s movement in space is key. You can watch people watching other people, which creates this really fantastic tension.<\/p>\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center\"><h2 style=\"text-align: center;\">\u201c<em>The value is intrinsic and cultural, not just financial. You can\u2019t speculate with these works.<\/em>\u201d \u2013 Chris Dercon<\/h2><\/h2>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Simone Farresin: <\/strong>Absolutely. Because of the way the building is designed, it stages the visitors as much as the works of art. You see the visitors and the works together, as if the display case had been opened up to let them in. We\u2019ve always tried to do this in our own work, but here, the building does it all by itself. I should add that, despite its complexity, it offers an impression of freedom. I don\u2019t really like that word, but you get the feeling that certain works, normally seen in a white cube, express themselves better outside that context, as though they were grounded in a reality, that of the building, the street, and the visitors. It\u2019s very refreshing for contemporary art, as we saw recently at <a href=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/en\/non-classifiee-2\/interview-with-wolfgang-tillmans-you-art-is-only-as-interesting-as-your-thoughts-are-2\/\"><strong>Wolfgang Tillmans<\/strong><\/a>\u2019s exhibition at the <strong>Centre Pompidou<\/strong>. Breaking away from the white cube can enhance the art.<\/p>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Chris Dercon: <\/strong>One shouldn\u2019t conclude that the white cube is inherently bad. Far from it. But we offer a very valuable alternative. What <strong>Formafantasma<\/strong> does \u2013 or what Wolfgang Tillmans and other artists have always done \u2013 helps us rethink what it means to exhibit. In the 1920s and 30s, people knew how to do that really well, and then it was mostly forgotten. It came back with Carlo Scarpa and Lina Bo Bardi, but it remained a footnote.<\/p>\n\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{&quot;imageId&quot;:&quot;6a20e149cd086&quot;}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\" data-wp-key=\"6a20e149cd086\" class=\"wp-block-image size-full wp-lightbox-container\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1200\" height=\"800\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--pointerdown=\"actions.preloadImage\" data-wp-on--pointerenter=\"actions.preloadImageWithDelay\" data-wp-on--pointerleave=\"actions.cancelPreload\" data-wp-on-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" src=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/David-Hammons-facing-Le-Louvre-2.jpg\" alt=\"fondation cartier david hammons \" class=\"wp-image-744456\"\/><button\n\t\t\tclass=\"lightbox-trigger\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"button\"\n\t\t\taria-haspopup=\"dialog\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-bind--aria-label=\"state.thisImage.triggerButtonAriaLabel\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-init=\"callbacks.initTriggerButton\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--right=\"state.thisImage.buttonRight\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--top=\"state.thisImage.buttonTop\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"12\" height=\"12\" fill=\"none\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\">\n\t\t\t\t<path fill=\"#fff\" d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" \/>\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">View of the exhibition. Fondation Cartier pour l\u2019art contemporain, 2025. David Hammons, <em>Sans titre<\/em> (1997). Photo \u00a9 Marc Domage.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center\"><h2 style=\"text-align: center;\"><em>\u201cWe want to anchor the works in a reality \u2013 our reality, the building\u2019s, the city\u2019s \u2013 rather than in abstraction.\u201d<\/em> \u2013 Simone Farresin<\/h2><\/h2>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><p class=\"p1\"><strong>In French, exhibition design is known as sc\u00e9nographie. What does that word conjure up for you?<\/strong>&#13;\n<strong>Simone Farresin: <\/strong>We don\u2019t like the word sc\u00e9nographie because it evokes the theatre, something artificial. We also dislike the moveable partitions typical of the white cube, which pretend to be neutral but aren\u2019t. For <em>Exposition g\u00e9n\u00e9rale<\/em>, we designed display structures in metal and fabric. Some artists might not like being shown on such bold design pieces, but for us it\u2019s important. We want to anchor the works in a reality \u2013 our reality, the building\u2019s, the city\u2019s \u2013 rather than in abstraction. We\u2019re Italian, we grew up seeing the likes of Franco Albini, Carlo Scarpa, BBPR, the Castello Sforzesco. Italy has a fantastic tradition of exhibition design. We started doing this because we were disappointed by a lot of shows, but were fascinated by those where the design adds a real layer to the work and connects very different pieces in the same space.<\/p><\/p>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Chris Dercon: <\/strong>One might also say that you stage the exhibition itself: it\u2019s a performance. Visitors feel that &#8211; there\u2019s great potential for interaction.<\/p>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><p class=\"p1\"><strong>Andrea Trimarchi: <\/strong>Yes. There\u2019s also a purely functional aspect. We talked a lot with the curatorial team about visitor flow. You can go up and down, and see things from different angles. There were two options: either a very specific circuit, which would have required closing off parts of the building, or a suggestion, with vertical markers visible everywhere so that visitors could find their way around intuitively. Like in a city, where an emblematic building, such as Brunelleschi\u2019s cathedral in Florence, guides the eye.<\/p><\/p>\n\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{&quot;imageId&quot;:&quot;6a20e149cd44c&quot;}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\" data-wp-key=\"6a20e149cd44c\" class=\"wp-block-image size-full wp-lightbox-container\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1200\" height=\"794\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--pointerdown=\"actions.preloadImage\" data-wp-on--pointerenter=\"actions.preloadImageWithDelay\" data-wp-on--pointerleave=\"actions.cancelPreload\" data-wp-on-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" src=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/Junya-Ishigami_Luiz-Zerbini.jpg\" alt=\"fondation cartier Junya Ishigami Luiz Zerbini\" class=\"wp-image-744460\"\/><button\n\t\t\tclass=\"lightbox-trigger\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"button\"\n\t\t\taria-haspopup=\"dialog\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-bind--aria-label=\"state.thisImage.triggerButtonAriaLabel\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-init=\"callbacks.initTriggerButton\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--right=\"state.thisImage.buttonRight\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--top=\"state.thisImage.buttonTop\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"12\" height=\"12\" fill=\"none\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\">\n\t\t\t\t<path fill=\"#fff\" d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" \/>\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">View of the exhibition. Fondation Cartier pour l\u2019art contemporain, 2025. Junya Ishigami, <em>Sydney Cloud Arch<\/em> (2015) \/ Luiz Zerbini, <em>Natureza Espiritual da Realidade<\/em> (2012). Photo \u00a9 Marc Domage.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center\"><h2 style=\"text-align: center;\"><em>\u201cTransdisciplinarity between design and architecture, between painting and sculpture, between art and craft, is what really makes this collection stand out.\u201d <\/em>\u2013 Chris Dercon<\/h2><\/h2>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><p class=\"p1\"><strong>What makes the collection so contemporary? Its openness to so-called \u201cminority\u201d cultures? Its transversality? Its openness to all forms of life? Its way of dehierarchizing life forms? Its openness to craft?&#13;\nChris Dercon: <\/strong>For me, like I said at the beginning of our conversation, the most important thing is the <strong>transdisciplinarity<\/strong> between design and architecture, between painting and sculpture, and between art and craft. That\u2019s what really makes this collection stand out. Art Basel collectors will say, \u201c<em>But I don\u2019t see these artists at Sotheby\u2019s or Christie\u2019s! How much are they worth?<\/em>\u201d The value is intrinsic and cultural, not just financial. You can\u2019t speculate with these works. It\u2019s an investment in culture, and that gives us a lot of freedom to go find art where no one else is looking and acquire works by local artists, for instance.<\/p><\/p>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><p class=\"p1\">That\u2019s what makes the Fondation Cartier different: it holds up another mirror to the diversity of cultural creation. A work like Exit by Diller Scofidio + Renfro, based on an idea by Paul Virilio, charts population movements around the world, evolving with real-time events, continually updating through data. It\u2019s a work that\u2019s typically outside the market.<\/p><\/p>\n\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{&quot;imageId&quot;:&quot;6a20e149cd81a&quot;}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\" data-wp-key=\"6a20e149cd81a\" class=\"wp-block-image size-full wp-lightbox-container\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1200\" height=\"800\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--pointerdown=\"actions.preloadImage\" data-wp-on--pointerenter=\"actions.preloadImageWithDelay\" data-wp-on--pointerleave=\"actions.cancelPreload\" data-wp-on-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" src=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/View-from-Level-1_Andrea-Branzi_Gazebo.jpg\" alt=\"fondation cartier andrea branzi \" class=\"wp-image-744462\"\/><button\n\t\t\tclass=\"lightbox-trigger\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"button\"\n\t\t\taria-haspopup=\"dialog\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-bind--aria-label=\"state.thisImage.triggerButtonAriaLabel\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-init=\"callbacks.initTriggerButton\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--right=\"state.thisImage.buttonRight\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--top=\"state.thisImage.buttonTop\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"12\" height=\"12\" fill=\"none\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\">\n\t\t\t\t<path fill=\"#fff\" d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" \/>\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">View of the exhibition. Fondation Cartier pour l\u2019art contemporain, 2025. Andrea Branzi Gazebo, 2008 Photo \u00a9 Cyril Marcilhacy.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Simone Farresin: <\/strong>In contrast to the finance-driven art market, this collection is proof that there are works that can only exist in an institution. Not that everything sold at auctions is bad per se, but it\u2019s also crucial to show what escapes the market. We know that many of the works currently on display in the New York galleries, in the Meatpacking District, are there because they\u2019re easier to exhibit.<\/p>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Chris Dercon:<\/strong> The collection and the show<em> Exposition g\u00e9n\u00e9rale<\/em>, with its humble, somewhat ironic title, raise new questions that go beyond debates about identity, globalism, and decolonization. We\u2019re opposite the Louvre, like a mirror of our world. For me, one of the greatest pleasures is arriving in the morning, and seeing the passers-by on the rue de Rivoli, and at the same time the Louvre opposite getting ready to open. It\u2019s almost like Flaubert\u2019s<em> Bouvard et P\u00e9cuchet<\/em> or Calvino\u2019s <em>Invisible Cities<\/em> transposed to the 21st century.<\/p>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>Opening of the new premises of the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.fondationcartier.com\/en\">Fondation Cartier<\/a> on October 25th, 2025, 2, place du Palais-Royal, Paris Ier.<\/em>\u00a0<em>\u201cExposition g\u00e9n\u00e9rale\u201d, from October 25th, 2025, to August 23rd, 2026.<\/em><\/p>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n<figure data-wp-context=\"{&quot;imageId&quot;:&quot;6a20e149cdc21&quot;}\" data-wp-interactive=\"core\/image\" data-wp-key=\"6a20e149cdc21\" class=\"wp-block-image size-large is-resized wp-lightbox-container\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"785\" height=\"1024\" data-wp-class--hide=\"state.isContentHidden\" data-wp-class--show=\"state.isContentVisible\" data-wp-init=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\" data-wp-on--load=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" data-wp-on--pointerdown=\"actions.preloadImage\" data-wp-on--pointerenter=\"actions.preloadImageWithDelay\" data-wp-on--pointerleave=\"actions.cancelPreload\" data-wp-on-window--resize=\"callbacks.setButtonStyles\" src=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/formafantasma-fondation-cartier-numero-art-17-1-785x1024.jpg\" alt=\"The duo Formafantasma at the Fondation Cartier photographed by Nick Chard for Num&#xE9;ro art 17.\" class=\"wp-image-742252\" style=\"width:785px;height:auto\"\/><button\n\t\t\tclass=\"lightbox-trigger\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"button\"\n\t\t\taria-haspopup=\"dialog\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-bind--aria-label=\"state.thisImage.triggerButtonAriaLabel\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-init=\"callbacks.initTriggerButton\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-on--click=\"actions.showLightbox\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--right=\"state.thisImage.buttonRight\"\n\t\t\tdata-wp-style--top=\"state.thisImage.buttonTop\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"12\" height=\"12\" fill=\"none\" viewBox=\"0 0 12 12\">\n\t\t\t\t<path fill=\"#fff\" d=\"M2 0a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v2h1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 1 .5-.5h2V0H2Zm2 10.5H2a.5.5 0 0 1-.5-.5V8H0v2a2 2 0 0 0 2 2h2v-1.5ZM8 12v-1.5h2a.5.5 0 0 0 .5-.5V8H12v2a2 2 0 0 1-2 2H8Zm2-12a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2h-1.5V2a.5.5 0 0 0-.5-.5H8V0h2Z\" \/>\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The duo Formafantasma at the Fondation Cartier in front of the artwork <em>Chapel of Valley<\/em> (2016) by Junya Ishigami. Photo by Nick Chard for <em>Num\u00e9ro art<\/em>.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Num\u00e9ro art 17 is available at newsstands and on iPad since October 18th,\u00a02025. The Fondation [&#8230;]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"btn btn-secondary understrap-read-more-link\" href=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/en\/art-design\/numero-art-en\/fondation-cartier-the-duo-formafantasma-unveils-the-new-space-with-its-director-chris-dercon\/\">Read More&#8230;<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> from Fondation Cartier: The duo Formafantasma unveils the new space with its director Chris Dercon<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":10,"featured_media":744703,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"inline_featured_image":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[78,76,3182],"tags":[9992,9993,9994,2112],"class_list":["post-755212","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-art-en","category-art-design","category-numero-art-en","tag-fondation-cartier-en","tag-formafantasma-en","tag-jean-nouvel-en","tag-paul-emmanuel-reiffers-en"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Fondation Cartier relocates: Formafantasma gives us a tour<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Fondation Cartier is opening its new space on Place du Palais-Royal in Paris. 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