{"id":711424,"date":"2026-05-20T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2026-05-20T09:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/numero.com\/?p=711424"},"modified":"2026-05-20T14:04:12","modified_gmt":"2026-05-20T12:04:12","slug":"interview-larry-gagosian-roberta-smith","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/numero.com\/en\/art-design\/art-en\/interview-larry-gagosian-roberta-smith\/","title":{"rendered":"State of the Art: Conversation between Larry Gagosian and Roberta Smith"},"content":{"rendered":"\n
\"Portrait\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button>
Portrait of Larry Gagosian. \u00a9 Photo Inez & Vinoodh.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

The first-ever extended conversation between Roberta Smith and Larry Gagosian<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

Larry Gagosian and I have both been part of the New York art world <\/strong>for around four decades. I\u2019ve seen many of his gallery\u2019s exhibitions<\/strong>\u2014reviewed some of them, too\u2014and it\u2019s likely he\u2019s read some of my writing. But until this interview<\/strong>, we had seldom exchanged more than \u201cHello, nice to see you,<\/em>\u201d and the occasional air kiss. By now, Gagosian\u2019s origin story is the stuff of legend: raised in a middle-class household near Los Angeles with no exposure to art, he earned a degree in English literature from UCLA. Casting about for something to do, he once saw someone selling posters from the trunk of a car and thought, \u201cI can do that.<\/em>\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The only way was up. An autodidact<\/strong>, he discovered his passion for art\u2014and art dealing<\/strong> \u2014through relentless looking, listening, and a few key mentors, most notably the legendary art dealer Leo Castelli<\/strong>. Cold-calling collectors and dealers with uncommon tenacity, he worked his way into the upper echelons of the art world, ultimately redefining what a gallery could be.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

He pioneered a model that balanced landmark historical exhibitions with shows by contemporary\u2014and occasionally emerging\u2014artists. Describing himself as ambitious, competitive, and tenacious, he built a global network of galleries <\/strong>unlike anything the art world had seen, a network so expansive that, as he once put it, \u201cthe sun never sets<\/em>\u201d on it. Here we have our first real conversation<\/strong>, discussing the trajectory of his career, his epiphanies, his artists, and some of the nuts and bolts of running his empire.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Interview with Larry Gagosian<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

Roberta Smith : Let\u2019s start where most interviews end: how do you see your legacy? You\u2019ve been described as having reshaped the art world, taking art dealing to the level of a \u201cblood sport.\u201d How do you see it?
Larry Gagosian<\/a> :<\/strong> I take a lot of pride in the fact that we\u2014for better or worse\u2014created a new model of what a gallery could be. And other galleries have followed that, opening galleries in different locations. I guess it\u2019s flattering in a certain way. It was just an instinct that I had. I thought it would be an interesting way to build my business and offer things to artists that a single gallery couldn\u2019t. It wasn\u2019t some grand plan. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

I was just curious to see what I could do. It just kept going. I thought it was fun opening galleries in different parts of the world. Also, we could reach collectors who don\u2019t necessarily want to live in New York<\/a>\u2014or London, for that matter. What\u2019s also been very successful commercially is that somebody will find a work in Athens and we sell it to somebody in Hong Kong. There\u2019s a lot of art moving around within our structure that wouldn\u2019t have happened otherwise. It\u2019s a big headache in many respects, but I just enjoy the complexity of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What\u2019s the chain of command? Are you okaying everything?<\/strong>
No, no. But I think, people kind of know what we want, what I want. Also, I can\u2019t micromanage eighteen galleries. It\u2019s impossible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So would the situation arise where one of your non-New York galleries shows an artist or a body of work you\u2019re not familiar with?<\/strong>
Not really. I call up almost all of my directors, almost every day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Sounds scary.
<\/strong>Well, we get along pretty well. I hope it\u2019s not too scary. I like to keep in touch, to use the telephone and I appreciate the immediacy of telephones. We\u2019ve got really good people working for us and they\u2019ve been there for 25, 30, 35 years. And so, after that much time and experience with\u2014I hate to use the word\u2014the culture [of the gallery<\/em>], they kind of know how we like to do things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

From Paris to New York and Hong Kong<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m being a trifle New York-centric, but I wonder, who are these out of town shows for? How many people see them? Do they perform the same kind of public service that your\u2014or anyone\u2019s\u2014 New York galleries provide the city\u2019s portion of the art world. Are there real art publics?
<\/strong>Yes, I think so, in every city. There\u2019s our public in LA; there\u2019s our public in Hong Kong and Paris. Paris has become more relevant for our business recently.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Thanks to Brexit?
<\/strong>Thanks, in part, to Brexit.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Your New York shows tend to draw large crowds. Do you check attendance at the various galleries elsewhere?<\/strong>
Not so much, but I do keep in touch with profit and loss. I don\u2019t want just a bunch of vanity galleries<\/strong> that are all fed by New York. They basically have to justify themselves in terms of P and L. They have to run their own books, so each one can tell me how they\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There must be instances where loss exceeds profit. <\/strong>
We had two galleries we shut down because it was a mistake to open them, and I recognized it pretty quickly. San Francisco was one of them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

When loss exceeds profit<\/h3>\n\n\n\n

I wanted to ask about that. It opened across the street from\u2014and in tandem with the reopening of\u2014the newly expanded San Francisco Museum of Modern Art. And was never heard from again.
<\/strong>That was a super annoying situation. I had someone working for me who was a smart and effective sales-person and who said they were really well connected in tech, who really wanted to help open a gallery in San Francisco. I let myself get worn down and said, \u201cOkay, let\u2019s do it<\/em>.\u201d And then I\u2019d go to the openings, not all of them, of course, but a few, and there\u2019s nobody there. So when you talk about people walking through the door, it was really disappointing. The location was not the problem; the city was the problem. And maybe that\u2019ll change in the next few years, I don\u2019t know, but I wasn\u2019t going to wait around.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And where was the other one?
<\/strong>Geneva. That didn\u2019t work either. Nobody showed up.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Looking at which Gagosian artists are showing in New York and which are showing in your galleries elsewhere, a clear hierarchy emerges. On occasion, the galleries outside New York can serve for what are basically out-of-town tryouts.
<\/strong>Like off-Broadway.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And you have something similar in town. The small gallery at Park and 75th also functions as a tryout space, as does the 21st Street location, at times, relative to the 980 Madison flagship.
<\/strong>That\u2019s worked out well. Some artists say, \u201cNo way\u2014I want you to represent me, but I want to start with a show at 980.\u201d I say, \u201cNo, we\u2019re not going to do it that way. We want to test the waters. We want to see if the relationship works, if there\u2019s good chemistry, if we get along. If you don\u2019t want to do it that way, fine\u2014but I\u2019m not going to always plunge straight into 980 Madison.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You have two lists of artists on your website. One features around 100 artists the gallery actively represents with solo shows, etc. About a fifth of them are estates. Below that, a prompt says, \u201cSee All Artists,\u201d which is startling at the bottom of such a long list. This second list includes everyone from the first list, plus many others\u2014around 280 in total, including about 100 estates. In other words, it reflects a much broader swath of the gallery\u2019s dealings and forms a kind of archive. <\/strong>
If you go on the website wanting to see what we\u2019re active in\u2014and what matters to the gallery\u2014I sometimes wonder if it can feel a little too diffuse.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The first list doesn\u2019t feel overly diffuse, considering how many galleries you have. But the second one is more intriguing\u2014it reflects the full range of your activity. Take Eric Fischl, for example: you\u2019ve never given him a solo show, but he\u2019s appeared in a couple of your group exhibitions. Same with Jean Arp.<\/strong>
It seems very open, in a way\u2014transparent?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s kind of self-aggrandizing, but it also maps out much of your involvement with art. It\u2019s a great resource for everyone.
<\/strong>There\u2019s a hierarchy in any gallery. Not everyone is Cy<\/strong> Twombly<\/strong> or Richard Serra<\/a><\/strong>. But I believe in being open to young artists and seeing what might happen. I like that approach. I don\u2019t want to be limited. Matthew Marks, I think, is a genius in how he represents a very concise, distilled group of artists. It\u2019s incredibly focused\u2014but that\u2019s just not how I\u2019m wired.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It seems likely that most of your artists don\u2019t hear from the gallery every month.
<\/strong>They may not be hearing from me directly, but they\u2019re probably hearing from their liaisons at the gallery.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Larry Gagosian photographed in his Upper East Side townhouse, standing beside Jeff Koons\u2019s St. John the Baptist (1988) and in front of Brice Marden\u2019s Round Rock, Tight Rock (4) (2000\u20132002). \u00a9 Photo Inez & Vinoodh. <\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

\u201cI ran into someone on Madison Avenue with a sharp tongue who said, \u201cYou know why you got that Picasso so cheap, Larry? Because everyone hated the guy who sold it.\u201d Worked out pretty well for me<\/em>\u201d – Larry Gagosian.<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

On average, how many artists is one person at Gagosian responsible for? How do you assign that?<\/strong>
I\u2019m not sure how to quantify it. Some artists require a lot more time, energy, and engagement; others are more autonomous and pretty much run their own show. We\u2019ve got about 300 people working for us. It\u2019s the only way to manage this scale. I can\u2019t cover all the bases myself. The horses are out of the barn in that regard.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

When did you buy your first Picasso? And what was it?
<\/strong>It\u2019s hanging in my dining room. I\u2019m not sure it was the very first, but it was close. A beautiful Dora Maar<\/strong> portrait. It came up at Sotheby\u2019s<\/strong> with a high estimate of $900,000. It was the last lot in the sale, and no one bid on it. I bought it for the estimate\u2014$900,000. Today, it\u2019s a $40 million painting. Afterwards, I ran into someone on Madison Avenue with a sharp tongue who said, \u201cYou know why you got that Picasso so cheap, Larry? Because everyone hated the guy who sold it.<\/em>\u201d Worked out pretty well for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You have been criticized for making art dealing a blood sport.
<\/strong>It\u2019s rough and competitive; art dealers are a tough breed. But what gets to me is when people say I don\u2019t love art. How could I possibly do what I do without caring deeply about it? There\u2019s no way. Why would I put myself through it? There are far easier ways to make money. I\u2019ve never met anyone who truly succeeds in this world without a real passion for the art itself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Are you better at selling to private collectors or to museums?<\/strong>
Private collectors. I don\u2019t have the patience for museums.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

When did you first come to New York? Were you already an art dealer then?
<\/strong>No, I had nothing. I was still selling cheap posters. It was around 1975, and I came because I had a girlfriend living here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And then you came back. The next time was\u2026?
<\/strong>Around \u201977. I bought a loft on West Broadway, right around the time I opened my first gallery in L.A.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That seems a little contradictory.
<\/strong>I realized that to be good at my job, I needed to spend time in New York\u2014see what was happening, go to the museums, hopefully meet some artists, just get into the flow. And as it turned out, I fell in love with the city. Not long after, I knew I\u2019d eventually move here for good. My first New York show was David Salle, right there in that West Broadway loft.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A knack for money-making?<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

I saw it. It might have been the first time I saw Salle\u2019s work, I think. I remember standing in a bedroom of that loft\u2014it was high up\u2014looking at a wonderful Salle painting over the bed. Then I turned and looked down at the entrance to 420 West Broadway, way, way below. It was a vertiginous plunge. And in retrospect, it also felt like a target.
<\/strong>Just being there felt symbolic. It meant something.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You discovered your knack for making money before you got interested in art, back when you were selling posters.
<\/strong>Yeah, I was selling posters on the sidewalk, hung on pegboards, if you can imagine that. And it was all about making money. It was schlock. Maybe even a step below schlock. They were $15 with a frame, and I\u2019d make about $10 on each one. That felt pretty good. I sold a lot of them. So from the very beginning\u2014for better or worse\u2014I was learning about art and the art world while also figuring out how to survive. I never separated the two. In some ways, I think it was a good way to start. Though I wouldn\u2019t exactly recommend it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But you\u2019d already seen Twombly\u2019s paintings in L.A.
<\/strong>At Nick Wilder\u2019s gallery. He had a Twombly Blackboard show in 1968. I was blown away by the paintings. I really liked Nick, and we became friends. He was very open, and he let me sell things for him. I used to drive him to see his shrink\u2014it became a regular thing because he didn\u2019t have a driver\u2019s license. He was a fascinating guy, and just talking to him helped me take art more seriously.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Twombly\u2019s work quickly became one of the enduring artistic loves of your life.
<\/strong>He was one of those artists whose work immediately excited me, both to look at and to think about. At a certain point, he didn\u2019t have a gallery, or at least not one that was really working hard for him. I wasn\u2019t sure I was ready for an artist of his stature, but it turns out I was. His first show with me was in late 1989, and it was also one of the first at 980 Madison.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Tell me more about your involvement with Twombly.
<\/strong>We used to show Cy almost every year. At one point, word got back to me\u2014no names, and I\u2019m sure they meant well\u2014that people were saying, \u201cLarry just wants money. He\u2019s driving Cy into the ground, making him paint.\u201d And to some extent, it was true: I did push him to work. But, honestly, I take pride in that. If I hadn\u2019t been his dealer during that phase of his career, always encouraging him and giving him a place to show, he might not have made all those late paintings. That may sound a little arrogant, but it became a kind of tradition: every time I opened a new gallery\u2014Athens, Rome, Paris\u2014we\u2019d open with a Twombly show. It felt like good luck. And he loved it. He loved it because he got busy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Cy Twombly and Larry Gagosian: From friends to allies<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

Very busy. You have given him 35 shows so far.
<\/strong>It\u2019s amazing to think of all that work coming right at the end of a painter\u2019s life. You know, like there was no slowing down or fading. It\u2019s some of the most powerful late work I\u2019ve ever seen from any artist in my lifetime.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Another early show I remember was in 1986 at your first New York gallery on 23rd Street: Andy Warhol<\/a>\u2019s Oxidation paintings. I\u2019d never seen so many of them in one place.
<\/strong>Yes, that was the last painting show he had before he died. I remember being in the studio. I\u2019d just started doing business with Andy, through Fred [Hughes<\/em>], who was helping me. I\u2019d go over there as often as I was allowed, have lunch with Andy, see what was going on, watch him paint\u2014because he painted all the time. He was always working. One day, we were having lunch at Fred\u2019s desk and I noticed a canvas rolled up in plastic. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

I asked, \u201cWhat\u2019s that?<\/em>\u201d Fred said, \u201cDon\u2019t bother. Nobody wants those. They\u2019re the Oxidation paintings<\/em>.\u201d I said, \u201cCan we take a look?<\/em>\u201d We unrolled one on the studio floor\u2014this huge, 10-meter piece\u2014and Andy said, \u201cYou think you could sell these?<\/em>\u201d I said, \u201cYeah, I think I could.<\/em>\u201d That\u2019s how it started. It was a different world then\u2014completely. You could be spontaneous with someone like Andy. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

There was a big 1962 Coke bottle painting behind Fred\u2019s desk. I asked Andy, \u201cWould you sell that?<\/em>\u201d He said, \u201cI don\u2019t know<\/em>.\u201d I said, \u201cHow much?<\/em>\u201d He said, \u201c$200,000?<\/em>\u201d To that, I replied, \u201cOkay, I think I can sell it.<\/em>\u201d Then, I called Si Newhouse, he came down to the studio, and he bought the painting. For me, that was pure magic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I knew of the Oxidation<\/em> paintings, but I don\u2019t think they really registered until that show. It gave me a whole new perspective on Warhol\u2014 as a kind of Abstract Expressionist manqu\u00e9.
<\/strong>Well, he made quite a few of them, but they never sold. Nobody wanted them, and they were rarely shown. I think Leo [Castelli<\/em>] may have given them a show\u2014or maybe it was [Alexander] Iolas. But after that, they basically disappeared. He\u2019d given up on them commercially.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What qualities make someone a dealer?
<\/strong>There\u2019s no single formula\u2014one size doesn\u2019t fit all. There\u2019s Paula Cooper<\/strong>, there\u2019s Hauser & Wirth<\/strong>, and there\u2019s everything in between. I\u2019m not sure how to answer that exactly. But I do think the most important thing is that you have to really love<\/strong> art<\/strong>. Without that, nothing else holds. In my case, I\u2019d say you need to be competitive\u2014 which I certainly am\u2014and you have to genuinely like artists. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

To be a good dealer, you have to work hard, have drive. I never had a grand plan; I\u2019ve always followed my instincts. Sometimes I got it wrong, but more often than not, I got it right. Still, it was never mapped out. It\u2019s just not how I think. I just wanted to do more shows, with better artists\u2014 artists I found interesting. It\u2019s a totally consuming job. It\u2019s all I do and all I think about. So how did I get from A to B? I\u2019m not sure I can give you a neat answer. It\u2019s just been an organic evolution.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Larry Gagosian at his New York residence, seated in front of Brice Marden\u2019s Round Rock, Tight Rock (4) (2000\u20132002). At left: Rudolf Stingel\u2019s Untitled (2012). Also featured: Inez van Lamsweerde. \u00a9 Photo Inez & Vinoodh.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Basquiat, one of Gagosian’s loves<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

Another one of your loves is Basquiat<\/a>.
<\/strong>Basquiat was a special case. You don\u2019t come across an artist like that very often\u2014someone doing some- thing you\u2019ve never seen before. I was in my loft on West Broadway when Barbara Kruger<\/strong> called and asked, \u201cAre you in New York?<\/em>\u201d I said, \u201cYeah\u2014I mean, you just called me on my New York number<\/em>.\u201d She said, \u201cI\u2019m in a group show at Annina Nosei\u2019s gallery around the corner. Why don\u2019t you come to the opening?<\/em>\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n

So I did\u2014because Barbara invited me. Annina\u2019s gallery had three rooms. [This was in the Prince Street space that later became Miu Miu<\/a><\/em>.] The first one had some kind of geometric wooden sculpture. The next was Barbara\u2019s work. Then I walked into the third room\u2014and I had never seen anything like it. It was one of the most electrifying experiences I\u2019ve ever had looking at art. I couldn\u2019t believe how good it was. It made me physically vibrate. I\u2019m not exaggerating. It was that powerful. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Then Annina<\/strong> walked out of her office, which was right next to the room and said, \u201cLarry, what do you think?<\/em>\u201d I said, \u201cThese are amazing. I\u2019m completely blown away.<\/em>\u201d She said, \u201cOh, you don\u2019t know? This is <\/em>Jean-Michel Basquiat<\/em>.<\/strong>\u201d I\u2019d never heard the name. I\u2019d never seen a reproduction. I had zero awareness of this artist. He was 20 years old. First thing I asked was, \u201cWhat\u2019s available?<\/em>\u201d She said, \u201cThree aren\u2019t sold<\/em>.\u201d I asked, \u201cHow much?<\/em>\u201d She said, \u201c$3,000 each<\/em>\u201d\u2014maybe $3,500. I said, \u201cWould you let me buy all three?<\/em>\u201d And she said, \u201cSure, no problem.<\/em>\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n

One of them was that great skull painting that\u2019s now in the Broad<\/strong> collection<\/strong>. I should\u2019ve held on to that one. But I sold it to Eli [Broad<\/em>], and that painting is arguably Basquiat\u2019s masterpiece. Some people definitely think so. I sold it for $80,000 and felt like I\u2019d won the lottery.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s better than selling something and feeling ripped off.
<\/strong>I needed the money at the time, so I don\u2019t look back. I don\u2019t regret it at all. But Basquiat<\/strong> became a major part of my life after that. He and Twombly were the two artists who really lit my fire. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s interesting because their work is both very graphic in a certain way. Like all important painters, they invented a new way of making a painting, something close to writing.
<\/strong>There was nobody painting like Basquiat before Basquiat. Sure, you can mention the CoBrA schoo<\/strong>l or something similar, but that stuff looks like crap now\u2014[Asger<\/em>] Jorn and all that. Basquiat was completely original. Artists like that don\u2019t come along very often. I even offered to donate one to MoMA<\/strong>, and they turned it down.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You did? They did?
<\/strong>Yes. They finally got one, though, didn\u2019t they?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cBasquiat was completely original. Artists like that don\u2019t come along very often. I even offered to donate one to MoMA, and they turned it down.<\/em>\u201d – Larry Gagosian.<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

You also represented Brice Marden during the last decade of his life, but I hadn\u2019t realized you\u2019d been involved with his work for quite a while. You bought a painting before you even moved to New York, right?
<\/strong>I always liked Brice. He was one of the first artists I met in New York, and we became friends long before I was ever his dealer\u2014we socialized for years. He knew I was interested, of course, but he was always with one gallery, then another, and then another after that. Still, he knew I cared about the work. I bought it, I lived with it, I placed it. And eventually, he decided to let me represent him. That was a great moment\u2014for me, it meant a lot to finally work with Brice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

How did that happen?
<\/strong>It happened at my house in St. Barts. Helen and Brice were there for dinner. At one point, Helen said, \u201cCome on, Brice, what do you want to say to Larry?<\/em>\u201d And Brice goes, \u201cWell, yeah, I thought maybe\u2026 maybe we could do a show. I like your gallery in London. Maybe we could start there<\/em>.\u201d Then Helen jumps in\u2014and I\u2019m paraphrasing\u2014she says, \u201cCome on, go all the way. Sure, London\u2019s great, but you also want to show in New York. You want to show in L.A. You want Larry to represent you<\/em>.\u201d And Brice just said, \u201cOkay<\/em>.\u201d That was it. That was the conversation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Helen was a tremendous force in his life, his work, and his career. I don\u2019t mean that in a bad way\u2014it\u2019s just hard to imagine everything he accomplished without her.
<\/strong>That\u2019s very true. Without her energy and her devotion.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And without her traveling and collecting and great eye for real estate, to put it plainly.<\/strong>
I was really happy to see her new paintings, too. I just went up to Tivoli last week and spent the day with her. Since Brice passed, her work has really blossomed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Maybe that\u2019s not so surprising.
<\/strong>She\u2019s working at a larger scale now, and the paintings are really strong. She\u2019s still using shells and things like that, though less than before\u2014but she\u2019s still working with resin, color, and that glossy surface. Some of the pieces are really, really beautiful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Selling, exhibiting\u2026 and discovering artists<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

What aspect of your work has given you the most pleasure? <\/strong>
Selling is a thrill. Exhibiting is a thrill. Honestly, it\u2019s all thrilling in different ways. I love selling big paintings\u2014 expensive, famous paintings. That\u2019s incredibly satisfying, and it\u2019s an adventure in itself. But what really excites me is being able to juggle all of it over the years\u2014working with young artists, established artists, and estates, while also staying in the game when it comes to selling a Mondrian<\/strong> or a C\u00e9zanne<\/strong>. I wouldn\u2019t want to stop doing any of it. What keeps me going is the way it all plays off itself\u2014 the shows, the deals, the relationships. It\u2019s the whole thing that excites me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Of the 20 or so Picasso shows your gallery has mounted, it goes without saying that the standouts are the blockbuster, museum-quality exhibitions, usually staged on 21st Street and overseen by the gentleman and scholar John Richardson.
<\/strong>The first one we did was Mosqueteros<\/em> in 2009. Then we did The Mediterranean Years <\/em>in London (2010), followed by Picasso and Marie-Th\u00e9r\u00e8se<\/em> in 2011. After that came Picasso & the Camera<\/em> (2014), and then a show comparing Picasso and Fran\u00e7oise Gilot. And you know, the moment we finished one, John would immediately ask, \u201cSo what are we doing next?<\/em>\u201d He was relentless\u2014in the best way. It reminded me a bit of working with Cy [Twombly]. People used to say, \u201cLarry\u2019s exploiting Cy,<\/em>\u201d or \u201cLarry just wants money for his private plane.<\/em>\u201d But I\u2019ll tell you\u2014if I hadn\u2019t pushed him, Cy wouldn\u2019t have made a lot of those late paintings.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Maybe you were Helen to his Brice.
<\/strong>I\u2019d say, \u201cCome on, Cy, I\u2019ve got a new gallery\u2014let\u2019s make it the opening show.<\/em>\u201d I don\u2019t think that\u2019s a bad thing, and I don\u2019t think it\u2019s unusual either. It\u2019s like having an audience right there, waiting. He wanted to stay in the game. Opening new spaces with a show of his became a kind of tradition for us. He painted right up until the end. That summer\u20142011\u2014I was in the south of France, and we spoke on the phone just a few days before he died.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

He was on oxygen, fading, drifting in and out, shutting down, but he was still describing the next body of work he wanted to make. Then I got the call that he had died, and I flew to Rome for the funeral. Cy only painted when he had something to say\u2014an idea he was chasing. When that happened, he\u2019d go to the studio and work like a madman. Otherwise, he didn\u2019t feel the need to paint. He\u2019d travel, read\u2014he\u2019d live. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

But things were percolating\u2026
<\/strong>The traveling and the reading\u2014that was the percolating. He never forced it. If he didn\u2019t have something to say, he kept his mouth shut. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

I think it was great that he had you.
<\/strong>It was even greater that I had him.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s just occurring to me\u2014maybe this interview isn\u2019t going to work. In a way, we\u2019re mostly just talking shop.
<\/strong>But isn\u2019t that the best part? I\u2019m a shopkeeper, after all.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Lighting Director: Jodokus Driessen. Photo Assistant: Fyodor Shiryaev. Production: Michael Gleeson, John Nadhazi. Post: Stereohorse.<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The first-ever extended conversation between Roberta Smith and Larry Gagosian Larry Gagosian and I have […]<\/p>\n

Read More… from State of the Art: Conversation between Larry Gagosian and Roberta Smith<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":830476,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"inline_featured_image":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[78,76],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-711424","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-art-en","category-art-design"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nLarry Gagosian meets Roberta Smith for Num\u00e9ro New York<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"For Num\u00e9ro New York, Roberta Smith and Larry Gagosian, two titans of the art world, sit down for their first extended conversation together.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" 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