{"id":501156,"date":"2022-05-04T00:00:00","date_gmt":"1970-01-01T00:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/numero.com\/art\/numero-art\/roni-horn-at-the-bourse-de-commerce-interview-with-a-major-artist-discreet-but-committed\/"},"modified":"2022-05-04T00:00:00","modified_gmt":"1970-01-01T00:00:00","slug":"roni-horn-at-the-bourse-de-commerce-interview-with-a-major-artist-discreet-but-committed","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/numero.com\/en\/art\/numero-art\/roni-horn-at-the-bourse-de-commerce-interview-with-a-major-artist-discreet-but-committed\/","title":{"rendered":"Roni Horn at the Bourse de commerce : interview with a major artist, discreet but committed"},"content":{"rendered":"\n
\n \"\"\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button>\n
RONI HORN PHOTOGRAPHI\u00c9E PAR JUERGEN TELLER AU BORD DE LA SEINE \u00c0 PARIS.\r\n\r\n<\/figcaption>\n <\/figure>\n \n

Caroline Bourgeois: This exhibition-dialogue between you and Felix Gonzalez-Torres was inspired by a connection we noticed between two of your key works [Gold Field <\/i>and a.k.a<\/i>] and two of his, Untitled (Blood) <\/i>and Untitled (For Stockholm)<\/i>, which were never shown till now. Knowing you were friends, I suggested hanging these four works together and including in the catalogue a letter Felix sent you after you first met. We\u2019re also publishing the homage to him you wrote after his AIDS-related death in 1996… <\/b><\/p>\r\n\r\n

Roni Horn:<\/strong> I met Felix at the same time as Julie Ault, in 1990. It was at Indochine, a restaurant in New York. Felix wanted to talk to me about my exhibition that year at MOCA, which was my first show in a US museum. At that time, AIDS was a death sentence. There was no treatment, and nothing was really being done to protect people. It was a highly politicized disease because it seemed to strike what you might call unconventional sexualities. It was very easy for Reagan to say \u201cThey got what they deserved\u201d until it became clear that heterosexual men could get it too, and that they were infecting their wives, and so on. Now we\u2019re so close to finding a vaccine, I think about it all with great sadness the timeline of events, Felix\u2019s death. I knew from the moment we met that I was going to lose him.<\/p>\r\n\r\n

 <\/p>\r\n\r\n

People were already taking very militant stances: Julie Ault was part of the conceptual artists\u2019 collective Group Material, and of course there was ACT UP.<\/b><\/p>\r\n\r\n

ACT UP became a very important movement in the late 1980s. It literally showed what was going on in parts of society that most people had no idea about. And Felix was very politically engaged, of course. I had political conversations with him, and we shared the belief that art is inevitably political. But does that mean it has to be topical or thematic? Perhaps that\u2019s no longer a relevant question today… In any case, ideas of public and private were an important part of our conversations. Felix liked to play with public space by introducing images with no overt economic or political appeal into it on billboards, for example, which almost no one was doing at the time. He played very effectively with disjunctions, placing something enigmatic in a highly frequented yet very mundane environment, because he was addressing a popular audience, the passer-by, the average person, the street, not the museum-goer or the art collector. I found the connection he managed to establish very powerful.<\/p>\r\n\n

\n \"\"\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button>\n
VUE DE L\u2019EXPOSITION FELIX GONZALEZ- TORRES \u2013 RONI HORN \u00c0 LA BOURSE DE COMMERCE. D\u00c9TAIL DE WELL AND TRULY (2009-2010) DE RONI HORN. VERRE MOUL\u00c9 SOLIDE BRUT DE COUL\u00c9E, DIX PARTIES : 45,7 X 91,4 CM, 750 KG CHACUN.\r\nPhoto : Aur\u00e9lien Mole. \u00a9 Roni Horn. Courtesy of Pinault Collection<\/figcaption>\n <\/figure>\n \n

His 1991 billboard Untitled<\/i>, which shows a black-and- white photo of an empty double bed with slightly rumpled sheets, was shown on more two-dozen billboards in Manhattan as a tribute to his partner, Ross Laycock, who had died of AIDS-related complications that year. The intimate and the private became public and political, a key transposition in his work. The question of public and private, of identity, is also present in your oeuvre. I read somewhere that you had already under- stood by then that your gender was your decision alone, nobody else\u2019s. That was a radical position at the time. <\/b><\/p>\r\n\r\n

My gender is indeed nobody\u2019s business. It\u2019s something I became aware of as a child. I realized that social conventions were largely based on gender determination, and understood that it was something I couldn\u2019t accept.<\/p>\r\n\r\n

 <\/p>\r\n\r\n

It\u2019s a powerful stance that you and Felix shared, and I hope it will come through in the exhibition, this questioning of both identities and the works themselves as something living, the very opposite of an object. It will also allow us to play with the display of the works, as is already the case with Well and Truly <\/i>[2009\u201310], which changes each time it\u2019s installed. <\/b><\/p>\r\n\r\n

Absolutely, the opposite of an object. For me, there\u2019s some- thing very powerful in that it emphasizes the idea of a relationship, which I think is essential. Objects are illusions too. The idea that a person has a specific identity is an illusion to the extent that, in every person I know, there is a subtly different and changing self, which I know is true for every- one. When someone dies, you realize that everyone knew that person differently. It\u2019s the same with eyewitness accounts you realize how unreliable they can be. There is something about relationships that makes the material world less finite, less limited. It becomes a set of relationships. I\u2019ve always thought that the real meaning of my work is the experience of it. I can talk about it, of course, but in the end it all depends on you. I know I offer something very specific to look at, but it\u2019s also entirely based in the hope, the wish, the desire that through this relationship, this link, the meaning will emerge in the viewer.<\/p>\r\n\n

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D\u00c9TAIL DE UNTITLED (BLOOD) [1992] DE FELIX GONZALEZ-TORRES. RIDEAU DE PERLES ET DISPOSITIF DE SUSPENSION. DIMENSIONS VARIABLES.\r\nPhoto : Heinz Peter Knes. Courtesy of Pinault Collection<\/figcaption>\n <\/figure>\n \n

This is another thing you have in common with Felix, but in a different way. With him, we also find the object, which is unique but which can be made available to everyone. We can take a part of it with us. And we can physically carry the memory of it, that is to say a fragment… In his case, the objects are always reproduced in situ, for the exhibition. For example, Untitled (Portrait of Ross in L.A.) <\/i>[1991], which is made of candy wrapped in shiny paper and whose physical form changes de- pending on how it is installed. Ideally it should weigh 175 pounds, which is the average weight of an adult male. When visitors take a piece of candy with them, the weight and volume of the piece decrease. <\/b><\/p>\r\n\r\n

There you have all Felix\u2019s radicality and lucidity. This way of liquidating the materiality of the work and handing it over to the owner, or the viewer, and saying, \u201cHere, go ahead, do it, it\u2019s yours.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n

 <\/p>\r\n\r\n

 <\/p>\r\n\r\n

\u201cWe live through and in the artwork. It\u2019s not a superficial relationship. To experience it, you have to be there, you have to be present, you have to be fully attentive\u201d<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\r\n\r\n

 <\/p>\r\n\r\n

 <\/p>\r\n\r\n

This is something else you share with him and that appears, in a different way, in Well and Truly <\/i>[2009\u201310], for example, which offers a fluid, liquid and rather fascinating experience. Water is often present in your work \u2013 for me there\u2019s a link with the idea of nature. You\u2019ve been very active in Iceland, very engaged… <\/b><\/p>\r\n\r\n

It\u2019s interesting that you bring this up, because for me water is like a mentor. As a child, my connection to water was already very strong, even if it wasn\u2019t precisely articulated and was just content to be what it was. When I made Library of Water <\/i>[2003\u201307], this collection of samples from glaciers all over Iceland, displayed as columns of water that brought the landscape into the room, I said to myself: \u201cOkay, what are you doing here? You\u2019re taking a transparent substance and putting it in a transparent tube. Fine, but what are you expressing with that? It\u2019s transparent so what? Who cares?\u201d And yet the result turned out to be so much more visual and engaging than I\u2019d imagined. I liked the idea that there would somehow be nothing to see, but I was completely wrong about that. I think that in reality this idea of collecting water from different sources across Iceland was something that was important to me personally. I also felt that it was conceptually relevant. Today, some of the water in those columns is all that\u2019s left of the disappearing glaciers.<\/p>\r\n\n

\n \"\"\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t<\/button>\n
UNTITLED (ORPHEUS, TWICE) [1991] DE FELIX GONZALEZ-TORRES. MIROIR. 195 X 150 CM. SE REFL\u00c8TE DANS L\u2019\u0152UVRE DE FELIX GONZALEZ- TORRES DOUBLE MOBIUS, V.2 (2009-2018) DE RONI HORN. DEUX RUBANS EN OR PUR ET DEUX CHEVILLES EN PLASTIQUE.\r\nPhoto : Heinz Peter Knes. Courtesy of the artist and Hauser&Wirth<\/figcaption>\n <\/figure>\n \n

We\u2019re also showing the drawings from your 2016 series Dogs\u2019 Chorus <\/i>and your work around Emily Dickinson.<\/b><\/p>\r\n\r\n

Dogs\u2019 Chorus <\/i>consists of a series of works that take clich\u00e9s as their starting point. For me, the ready-made expression is a kind of linguistic icon, and I\u2019ve always conflated the visual and the linguistic \u2013 I\u2019ve never chosen one over the other. It\u2019s the same for male and female: I refuse to choose, I want both. Words have always very naturally permeated my work, and I\u2019ve never conceived of, nor wanted, nor represented a hierarchy between language and the visual. The Dogs\u2019 Chorus <\/i>series starts each time with three clich\u00e9s, three English-languague expressions, for example, \u201ca bat out of hell,\u201d \u201cat the drop of the hat\u201d or \u201ca fly in the ointment.\u201d I then interweave these expressions with the phrase \u201cdogs of war\u201d \u2013 taken from Shakespeare\u2019s Julius Caesar<\/i>, \u201cLet slip the dogs of war.\u201d A different relationship forms between the phrases that are cut up and reassembled. It\u2019s not a violent act in itself, but when you take something apart and put it back together differently, it\u2019s like a kind of meditation on meaning, or realignment of the language, of its content.<\/p>\r\n\r\n

 <\/p>\r\n\r\n

You and Felix are both political, in a way that empowers the viewer. To me, this seems far more effective than any didactic approach that only has short-term influence. <\/b><\/p>\r\n\r\n

We live through and in the artwork. It\u2019s not a superficial relationship. To experience it, you have to be there, you have to be present, you have to be fully attentive, which people aren\u2019t so much these days. To me, the beauty of art lies in this dynamic with the viewer, which gives rise to a truly intimate and precise opportunity.<\/p>\r\n\n

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D\u00c9TAIL DE A.K.A. (2008-2009) DE RONI HORN. IMPRESSIONS JET D\u2019ENCRE SUR PAPIER CHIFFON. TRENTE PHOTOGRAPHIES DE L\u2019ARTISTE JUMEL\u00c9ES. 38,1 X 33 CM CHACUNE. AVEC CADRE, 43,1 X 37,9 X 3 CM CHACUNE.\r\nPhoto : Aur\u00e9lien Mole. Courtesy of Pinault Collection. \r\n\r\nPartenaire cr\u00e9atif : Dovile Drizyte. Retouche : Catalin Plesa chez Quickfix Retouch Ltd.<\/figcaption>\n <\/figure>\n \n

This conversation-exhibition with Felix is being shown at the Bourse de Commerce in the heart of Paris, which brings us to another thing you both shared \u2013 he very much liked Paris too.<\/b><\/p>\r\n\r\n

For me, Paris is like a big forest. I find that every street and every vista is somehow seductive. When I started out as an artist, I was fascinated by French cinema and the Nouvelle Vague. And by French authors too. During my studies at Yale, I watched a lot of films. There was a film library at the university you could reserve the screening room and book a slot to see this or that film, whatever you wanted. All you had to do was sit down and watch Robert Bresson\u2019s A Man Escaped<\/i>, for example. I also watched The Trial of Joan of Arc<\/i>, a film that definitely influenced me a great deal on You Are the Weather <\/i>[1994\u201396]. By the way, on that subject, did you know that 12% of Americans believe Joan of Arc was married to Noah, as in Noah\u2019s Ark? That says an awful lot about America…<\/p>\r\n\r\n

 <\/p>\r\n\r\n

 <\/p>\r\n\r\n

Felix Gonzalez-Torres \u2013 Roni Horn,<\/i><\/strong> <\/i>of Roni Horn, until September 26th at the Bourse de commerce, Paris. <\/b><\/p>\r\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Caroline Bourgeois: This exhibition-dialogue between you and Felix Gonzalez-Torres was inspired by a connection we […]<\/p>\n

Read More… from Roni Horn at the Bourse de commerce : interview with a major artist, discreet but committed<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":0,"featured_media":501134,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"inline_featured_image":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[3084],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-501156","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-numero-art"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nRoni Horn at the Bourse de commerce : interview with a major artist, discreet but committed artist currently shown<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/numero.com\/en\/art\/numero-art\/roni-horn-at-the-bourse-de-commerce-interview-with-a-major-artist-discreet-but-committed\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" 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