{"id":497505,"date":"2026-06-03T09:30:00","date_gmt":"2026-06-03T07:30:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/numero.com\/art\/numero-art\/artist-cyprien-gaillard-building-in-ruins-is-like-going-without-sleep-or-having-a-fever\/"},"modified":"2026-06-03T10:35:16","modified_gmt":"2026-06-03T08:35:16","slug":"artist-cyprien-gaillard-building-in-ruins-is-like-going-without-sleep-or-having-a-fever","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/numero.com\/en\/art-design\/numero-art-en\/artist-cyprien-gaillard-building-in-ruins-is-like-going-without-sleep-or-having-a-fever\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview with Cyprien Gaillard: \u201cBuilding in ruins is like going without sleeping or having a fever\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"\n
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Cyprien Gaillard photographed in the workshop where the automaton “The Defender Of Time” is being restored in Besan\u00e7on, France.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n

Rebecca Lamarche-Vadel: For HumptyDumpty<\/i>, your double exhibition in Paris, you crisscrossed the city photographing the areas around the Eiffel Tower, the Concorde and other monuments currently being renovated ahead of the 2024 Olympic Games.\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n

Cyprien Gaillard:<\/b> The way cities try to preserve certain buildings has always interested me. Restoration policies are inevitably exclusive \u2013 you can\u2019t preserve everything. There\u2019s a hierarchy that defines which buildings and monuments take priority. These are the limits I want to explore \u2013 I\u2019ve always been interested in fault lines. I\u2019m old enough to remember playing marbles \u2013 you had to get the marble into a hole. For me, cracks in the ground are a space to aim for, to occupy. The theme of interstices often comes up in my work… I think every artist seeks an entry point into the world around them, a breach through which light can shine. In our increasingly rationalized, standardized cityscapes, there\u2019s less and less free space in which to project oneself or to experience anything other than oneself…\u00a0<\/p>\n\n\n

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Photographic document, “The Defender of Time by Jacques Monestier” (1979). Adagp, Paris, 2022. Reference for Humpty Dumpty By Cyprien Gaillard, Paris, 2022. \n<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n

The HumptyDumpty <\/i>project is an exhibition in two chapters, with an echo and resonance between the Palais de Tokyo and Lafayette Anticipations.\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n

HumptyDumpty <\/i>refers to a character in Lewis Carroll\u2019s Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There<\/i>. He first appeared in an 18th-century nursery rhyme, and was perhaps also the name of a cannon. In Carroll\u2019s book, Humpty Dumpty is an egg who lives on a brick wall. One day, he falls off and breaks. A group effort is made to put him back together, but, as the nursery rhyme explains, it\u2019s impossible \u2013 \u201ccouldn\u2019t put Humpty together again.\u201d Even mended, he\u2019ll never be the same. It\u2019s the idea of an endless moving spiral, like the grooves on a record. The title seemed particularly appropriate with respect to the massive campaign to restore the centre of Paris in preparation for the Olympic Games, as well as to all the issues of destruction, but above all preservation, surrounding the event.\u00a0<\/p>\n\n\n

\u201cFor me, cracks in the ground are a space to aim for and occupy<\/em>.\u201d \u2014 Cyprien Gaillard<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
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Cyprien Gaillard photographed in the workshop where the automaton “The Defender of time” is being restored in Besan\u00e7on, France.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n

You also decided to restore Le D\u00e9fenseur du temps <\/i>[The Defender of Time<\/i>, Jacques Monestier\u2019s giant automaton clock, installed in Paris\u2019s Quartier de l\u2019Horloge in 1979].<\/b>\u00a0<\/p>\n

Le D\u00e9fenseur du temps <\/i>was an obvious response to your invitation. I\u2019ve always wanted to breathe new life into someone else\u2019s work. I\u2019m very interested in the fate of public artworks, especially those that end up in a state of anonymity. Le D\u00e9fenseur du temps <\/i>is all the more symbolic as a stopped clock. I remember seeing it work as a child and feeling a great sense of strangeness. It was an enigma whose nature or origin I couldn\u2019t grasp. It was located in a side street near the Centre Pompidou, but in the eyes of a child it was much more interesting than the museum. I remember often passing through this interstitial, pedestrianized space, which lends itself to wandering. The clock is located between the Centre Pompidou and the Mus\u00e9e des Arts et M\u00e9tiers, but has no place in either. It exists in a counterspace, as Foucault would say. If I hadn\u2019t intervened, its days were probably numbered \u2013 it was filled with 300 kg of pigeon droppings and was in danger of collapsing. Questions of architectural and cultural conservation are only interesting to me when they\u2019re linked to questions of the preservation of beings, of the self. I have an emotional relationship to architecture: for me, a building in ruins is like going without sleeping or having a fever.\u00a0<\/p>\n\n\n

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The Archaeologists<\/em> (Circa 1927), Giorgio de Chirico. Oil on canvas, 127 x 92cm. Mus\u00e9e C. Bilotti \u2013 Aranciera Di Villa Borghese. \u00a9 Adagp, Paris, 2022.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n

In HumptyDumpty<\/i>, humans often have a complex relationship with history and the built environment, as can be seen in the other artists\u2019 works you\u2019ve chosen for the shows: Giorgio de Chirico\u2019s anonymous figures digesting layers of architecture; Smithson\u2019s drawings where signs of the city, language and myths implode in an internal crisis. K\u00e4the Kollwitz\u2019s figures become monstrous by trying to protect childhood from the forces of time and the barbarity of war. What place does the human have in your own work?<\/b><\/p>\n

Humans appear very little in my own work. I always kept a little Sony Handycam with me and filmed everything. For the video Lake Arches<\/i>, which I made when I was very young, my initial idea was to shoot an idyllic scene with two friends swimming in the lake, starting with a close-up of the sky reflected in the water and then zooming out to show Bofill\u2019s architecture \u2013 not a particularly good work to be honest. I started filming, one of them dived in a little too vertically and came out with a scratched, bloody nose. It aptly represents the idea of a confrontation between man and architecture, but also the way our bodies and environments are entangled. It reminds me of a work by Hajo Rose who, also when he was in his 20s, did a self-portrait with his face intertwined with the fa\u00e7ade of the Bauhaus.\u00a0<\/p>\n\n\n

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Cyprien Gaillard photographed in the workshop where the automaton “The Defender of Time” is being restored in Besan\u00e7on, France.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n

Heritage conservation developed over the 20th century with the idea of making objects permanent. Today there are 121 million items stored in French museums! But this obsession leads to a strange reality. In order to preserve them, the works must be cut off from the world in stable conditions, removed from the effects of time, seasons, day, night and light.\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n

Yes, these are recent ideas. Moreover, it\u2019s an obsession that goes against the preservation of the planet, because keeping museums and their reserves at a constant temperature of 21\u00b0 C has inevitable environmental consequences. The desire to preserve these works goes against the preservation of the Earth and its living beings. It\u2019s this jumble of issues that interests me: one is always preserved to the detriment of the other. But if there\u2019s nobody left, who are these works for? The Palais de Tokyo\u2019s cold droughts pushed me to show fragile pieces like Giorgio de Chirico\u2019s The Archaeologists <\/i>there, but I also had to find a way to install the painting without damaging it. The idea was to show it in a context different from normal museum standards to underline its fragility. But that meant altering it visually: a painting becomes a sculpture the moment it\u2019s placed in a glass case. This idea of care and consideration is reflected in the subject of the painting itself: two figures each with one hand on the other\u2019s shoulder, with a hydrometric control system at their feet like an artificial breathing device.<\/p>\n\n\n

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Photographic document,
Padlock<\/em>, Pont Des Arts, Paris. Reference for Humpty Dumpty <\/em>by Cyprien Gaillard, Paris, 2022.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n

The fact that the preservation of certain things leads to the deterioration of others comes back in your work Love Locks<\/i>, shown at the entrance to the Palais de Tokyo. They\u2019re industrial-strength garbage bags filled with \u201clove locks,\u201d the padlocks that tourists attach to Paris\u2019s bridges, whose combined weight threatens the bridges\u2019 stability. What gave you the idea? <\/b><\/p>\n

I thought about them one day while walking through the city. They aren\u2019t put there by Parisians but by couples from the US, Asia and elsewhere. They symbolize the permanence of their love, sealed in the padlocks after the key is thrown into the Seine… It\u2019s a gesture of great irony, isn\u2019t it? The padlock as an expression of love, when it also represents imprisonment. I imagined this work as a readymade. These padlocks don\u2019t pose an ethical problem so much as a physical one: at the Pont des Arts, their weight caused part of the railings to collapse, so in 2018 they were all removed and the wire railings replaced with large panes of Plexiglas. It\u2019s like Oscar Wilde\u2019s tomb at P\u00e8re-Lachaise, which is now under glass to protect it from all the lipstick kisses left by his fans. But the glass changes it. These examples highlight the paradox: preservation destroys. The irony inherent in attempts at conservation is that they destroy our access to a work in the here and now while ensuring its continued existence for future generations. <\/p>\n\n\n

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Photographic document,
Eiffel Tower And Scaffolding<\/em>, Paris. Reference for Humpty Dumpty <\/em>by Cyprien Gaillard, Paris, 2022.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n

In your piece Formation<\/i>, D\u00fcsseldorf\u2019s rather generic architecture is put into perspective through the presence of parakeets, which are considered an invasive species in the city. The question of an original, standard, normal state of place arises \u2013 a state that has been altered by the birds\u2019 presence.\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n

A few years ago, in New York, I became interested in birds. During the migration period they stop over in Central Park, which makes it a great place to watch them. I spent time observing them through binoculars as well as trying to understand the community of avid ornithologists eager to expand the collection of birds they\u2019ve seen but haven\u2019t possessed: for them, the mere fact of seeing a bird is enough to create a collection. That seems right to me: memory is a collection. But their way of observing birds is academic, directly linked to identification \u2013 male, female, juvenile, endemic, migratory, etc. Bird watchers are also interested in environmental issues and often perceive species introduced by man as harmful. This hierarchy of wildlife, as established by humans, caught my attention. The ring- necked parakeet, which is native to southern India, was introduced to Europe as a pet and gradually spread to many parks, such as London\u2019s Kew Gardens and Paris\u2019s Jardin du Luxembourg. The parakeet has a double identity: it\u2019s considered harmful by some because it disturbs existing ecosystems, but is admired by others because it symbolizes a kind of freedom regained, since these are the descendents of caged birds. In my film, we see parakeets flying over the K\u00f6nigsallee in D\u00fcsseldorf. They\u2019re non-migratory tropical birds that live in the interstitial spaces that are the streets and parks of D\u00fcsseldorf, finding legitimacy neither in freedom nor in captivity.<\/p>\n\n\n

\u201cI have an emotional relationship to architecture<\/em>.\u201d \u2014 Cyprien Gaillard <\/h2>\n\n\n\n

The interstitial space that is the K\u00f6nigsallee is also their bio-corridor. I admire their resilience. But in wildlife documentaries, parakeets are only ever shown in their original habitat, the wild landscapes of southern India. In D\u00fcsseldorf they found virgin ground to occupy, a new interstice. So I filmed them using the codes of animal documentaries: long shots, slow motion and, above all, from a low angle, because seen from the ground, the birds appear against the light, which means we can\u2019t admire their plumage. When it rains, like in my film, the parakeets fly quite high, passing in front of the K\u00f6nigsallee buildings, some of which date from before the war, while others are more recent, like Daniel Libeskind\u2019s K\u00f6-B\u00f6gen, which reminds me of the Rheinmetall headquarters, which are also located in D\u00fcsseldorf. Rheinmetall is one of the largest arms producers in Germany and has been operating in the region since the late-19th century. Historically, the Ruhr was the centre of the arms industry \u2013 this is why D\u00fcsseldorf was heavily bombed during the war. These Indian parakeets flying over the K\u00f6nigsallee at twilight immediately made me think of a military formation. In an irony of history, this tropical bird has invaded the city and gradually gained the upper hand-over German birds in a kind of reverse colonialism.\u00a0<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Cyprien Gaillard photographed in the workshop where the automaton “The Defender of Time” is being restored in Besan\u00e7on, France.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Rebecca Lamarche-Vadel: For HumptyDumpty, your double exhibition in Paris, you crisscrossed the city photographing the […]<\/p>\n

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